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  1. #1

    Kai Winkler (history-shop.de) "Deutsches Jungvolk" drum design dates to 1951 at the earliest...

    Here's a DJ drum that Winkler has for sale. He's asking 950 Euro. Keep in mind that his prices are always on the highest end of the market.

    https://www.history-shop.de/katalog/...sse_78499.html



    Admin Edit: this thread consists of posts relating to the Winkler drum which arose as part of an unrelated discussion so I split them off and moved them to create this new thread. The title was added by me when creating this thread. Winkler's website describes the design on this large drum as being a "Bann emblem" but it is nothing of the sort. It is the design used by a post-war youth organisation called "Deutsche Jugend des Ostens" (now "Deutsche Jugend in Europa"). See the discussion below for more detail.

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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gefolgschaft View Post
    Here's a DJ drum that Winkler has for sale. He's asking 950 Euro. Keep in mind that his prices are always on the highest end of the market.

    https://www.history-shop.de/katalog/...sse_78499.html
    I even doubt that the drum that is offered at Winkler is pre 1945. These drums were still used (those with the flames) within the scouts and some other youth groups a long time after the war. They were also made in the 50's and 60's in the same manner and from similar materials as pre 1945. I saw the last (pre 1945) ones to be used in the early 90's. Since then I am not that active anymore in the German youth movement. :closedeyes:
    The logo is the well known logo of a German youth organisation which was founded in the 1950's and was considered to be quite conservative till at least the 1980's: Deutsche Jugend des Osten. (German youth of the East). Originaly founded by people who were refugees from areas of the Reich which were then under communist power, it has now changed very much and can be considered quite progressive. So they have no more use for these kind of drums.
    I don't know whether the logo has ever been used before 1945, but i doubt it. And to call it a 'Bannabzeichen' is a good idea if you want to sell it for such a high price.
    Christian

  3. #3

  4. #4

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    I have got an a picture here in a publication from 1963. The DJO organisation hasn't been of much interest me so I did never search for any further badges. I do know about the Österreichische Jungvolk.
    But the Flamberg magazine of the Schilljugend in your photo is very rare.
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  5. #5
    Sorry Christian. While you were writing your post I amended mine after finding a picture of the flag, well a diagram anyway.

    Yes, I like the Flamberg too. I have two of them - both issues are from 1930 as far as I remember.

    P1010086.jpg

  6. #6

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    Great to see it back, thanks Garry.

  7. #7
    Excellent information gents. I wonder if Winkler really knows what the drum is or actually believes it's DJ?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gefolgschaft View Post
    I wonder if Winkler really knows what the drum is or actually believes it's DJ?
    I'd rather not tell him. Huesken ignored 3 pages of detailed information about "unknown badges" to his Kleinabzeichenkatalog from me, some years ago. An whenever I was at a fair and told someone politely that this or that is neither "Jungvolk" nor "early HJ" nor "after 1933" or "before 1945" but some youth movement stuff from a former or still existing organisation, they just didn't believe me. I do understand that it is always hard if you hear that something is not what you thought it was. But I can proof most of my collection by photos and written information. So I just buy what I know and like, (for example some unknown buckle at Weitze some years ago) and let them all die ignorant.
    :closedeyes:
    To make it more clear I'll post a link to a recent photo of a quite small christian scout organisation (Heliand Kreuzpfadfinder). I wonder what their flags, their trumpet banners, their drums and their black scarfs will sell for in a few years. If one is (un)lucky nothing will glow under UV-light and things will be called "home-made" "early HJ" and so on. So beware!


    moder.jpg

  9. #9

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    By the way, did u noticed the winterbluse of the fanfare guy, is exactly to the old DJ one!

    That scouts look so DJ, maybe a bit too much

  10. #10

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    Hi Albrecht, there is no need to be afraid of the Winterbluse or Jungenschaftsjacke as it is called nowadays. The differences are easily spottet. The main difference are the black buttons. The Jungenschaftsbluse with the black buttons was invented by a leader of the free youth movement "Freischar" in 1929 and was copied in the thirties by the Jungvolk. In 1935 black buttons were announced to be forbidden and only the common silver ones (most of you now these) were allowed. Then since 1945 the same blouse was made untill today. So whenever you come across a "winterbluse" with black buttons it is probably after 1945 or (more rarely) before 1933. I own two from 1934 worn by illegal members of the German youth movement. The new ones are easyer to spot. Just ask ebay Germany for "jungenschaftsjacke". Might also be ok for reenactment.

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