Garry

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I was wondering why, of all instruments used by the HJ and DJ, that only a couple can be clearly identified as 'HJ' today. When we do see the odd bugle or fanfare turn up on forums and dealer sites they don't usually have any HJ-specific markings.

Anyway, I had a flick through the regulations covering the musical units of the HJ and DJ and found a 1941 list of the instruments/equipment used by the various musical formations and also items that were specifically regulated by the RJF. The regulation states that in general, instruments/equipment were to be procured through local musical instrument outlets with the stipulation that they meet RJF specifications and be of good quality. Some items, however, had to be ordered directly through the RZM and orders were required to be sent up the chain of command for the following:

Schellenbaum (each Gebiet had one of these)
Lyre
Large drum (Landsknechtstrommel)
Cymbal
Kettle drum (including skirt)
HJ and DJ fanfare banners


The following instruments may or may not be found with RZM markings today but the dimensions and appearance should match those given in the regulation:

Fanfare trumpets
Landsknechtstrommel
Bugle
Flute (Querpfeife - English: Fife)
Side drum (Marschtrommel)
Large drum

Only four instruments were required to display the RJF eagle:

Fanfare trumpet
Bugle
Flute
Edit: The side drum also had an eagle.

The regulation is a little confusing in one aspect. After listing all of the instruments and their specifications it goes on to say that in cases where the RZM was unable to fulfill orders, that units were permitted to order instruments from other suppliers. As mentioned above, the stipulation was that the instruments had to meet the RJF specification and be of good quality. This seems to be suggesting that there were RZM versions of all instruments and not just those listed in the first section (lyre etc). We know of flutes and fanfares with RZM markings but further research is needed in order to establish just how many of the other instrument types had them too.

Has anyone ever come across a HJ/DJ flute?
Does anyone have a picture of HJ/DJ carrying a Schellenbaum?
 
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hey garry thats good info that mate as musical stuff is a bit of mystery right? even the rzm maker/codes are no whare on the net :( ?

heres a collector jock auld's hj bugle ( he shouldnt mind me showing here for ref of an original) he found it on a flea market in germany around whare he lives and it was bought with the fanfare trumpet aswell although it is not marked atall.

now this screams original to me he says hes guilty of giving them a little rub up, but hes one lucky man to have this rare little piece imho :scot

this little one was found for a modest price aswell, ahh one can dream i suppose!! :001_rolleyes:

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From what (little) I know about these I would say that yes, he is a lucky guy :thumb: It has a great look about and it definitely isn't one of the Pakistan fakes:

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f66/fake-hj-bugle-3729/

agreed mate if you look at the picture thats further away from the eagle on the bugle look hard and you will notice fine line details to the eagle wings/feathers that is out of focus on the close up one :thumb:

some fakes are terrible (thank god) on these eagles you see on these or soldered to a period unmarked bugle imo
 
From what (little) I know about these I would say that yes, he is a lucky guy :thumb: It has a great look about and it definitely isn't one of the Pakistan fakes:

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f66/fake-hj-bugle-3729/


Quick edit: M10 was the RZM code for instruments but I can't find a list of manufacturers anywhere.

Only one in fishers reference M10/71
Votruba Franz Wien X11 Eichenstr 40

steve
 
Toby's flute

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../..

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Another instrument
:france

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Does anyone have a picture of HJ/DJ carrying a Schellenbaum?

This was sold about a month ago. (I did'nt get it :angry: )

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Photos from one of my Fl. Techn. Vorschule albums.

Bugles and Fanfares with banners.

.

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Lauri and Henrik: many thanks for the pics of the flute and Schellenbaum :thumb:

Very interesting to see the RZM markings on the flute. I did wonder why the regulation stated that it was one of the instruments that was to be procured from local sources but that it had to have the official eagle. Didn't really make sense which was why I was hoping to see a pic.
 
Heres a couple ,

violins,

flutes and clarinets

steve

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Another Schellenbaum on parade.

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Interesting thread Garry.

Here's a photo of the RZM mark on my fanfare trumpet, and while I'm at it, my banner (once again - sorry!).

Best,
Toby.

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