Obergauführerinnenschule 1 Nordsee-Leesum/Bremen Items Fake / Rare?

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Hello everyone, I have a urgent question for the experts here. I am offered the following items, and I am not so sure if they are original. Because there is almost no documentation about the RFS Fuher / Fuhrerinnen Schule. 2 ladies cufflinks. with the hitlerjugend logo, and on the inside "lesum" 1 ladies watch with the RFS symbol on it. 1.hanhart Stopwatch with the text: Obergauführerinnenschule 1 Nortsee-Leesum/Bremen Horst-Wesselstr.225. I know that the Obergauführerinnenschule 1 in Nordsee-Leesum Bremen existed. But that is where my quest ends. Can someone please help me?? They are lovely items, but I will only buy them if they are original. Thanks in advance. kevin

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Engraving can be easily faked , especially if an old engraving tool is used . I would not pay to much for this lot .Maybe face value for 70 year old items ..stop watch , cufflinks and an old womans watch .
 
Update;
In real life they really looked genuine to me, the first pictures are not that good.
So I bought them.
I made a picture with my own camera.
Maybe you can give me an opinion on the engravings again please, Christianlohmann.??
This picture is much clearer.

thanks.

kevin

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To judge any item on what you personally think about the engraving is naive, as i showed on this thread with Mr Ailsbys fake badge. http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f28/golden-hj-honour-badge-oak-leaves-741/index11.html#post40302
No way on earth to give any opinion on what you think is good or bad, i could do great engraving for you right now on an object and you would say "Oh that looks period" but it would be from 2011. NEVER EVER even use this as any means to assist you in determining if the item is original. First look at the item, history and so on, the engraving, whatever it may be, only comes as a bonus, and no person on Gods green planet can determine the authenticity of any item based on the appearance of the engraving.
RULE ONE with items that are engraved.
Never even look at it, first the item..second the item, third the item.- Never even consider the quality, or non-quality of the engraving. This can be done tomorrow and you would say COOL, IMHO 100% genuine.
Engraving is like patina, it can be done now, and look like it was done 80 years ago.

Please start to use History instead of this Forum-BS-comparison by what YOU think YOU would hope to see.
 
some of my thoughts

I was asked to give some more thoughts on the engravings on these items, (the items themselves might be from before 1945, by the way) so let‘s start:

The quality is just not what I am used to when it comes to engravings before 1935. Engravings were mostly done by gold or silver smiths (some working at local jewelers). I am also not speaking of scratching done in the field or in camps.

The other question is why were things engraved anyway? Normally, or as for the items owned within my family for generations they were given to someone as a present which would remind the person it was presented to of the person, company, fraternity, party, military unit or club that presented it. So there was often a text refering to the occasion (sometimes a date) and sometimes the names of people involved.

The items here: Cufflinks often have the owner's monogram on the visible side. I have not seen any town names engraved on cufflinks yet. Maybe I would have expected RfS on a cufflink, but not a single town name.

Has anybody ever seen any other HJ cufflinks like this one? The HJ diamond is off center. The top seems to be in the middle, the bottom a bit too much to the right. To me it looks like it was just added onto the wave pattern later.

On the second cufflink there is just the town name Lesum, poorly engraved: At least the lower bar of the L is not straight. The free space left of the first letter is much smaller than the space right of the last letter. I'd say a German gold or silver smith would have done better.

On a finger ring like this I would have expected a monogram or maybe the 3 letters RfS. But here there is also the name of the place added. Lesum is a suburb in Bremen. Why would you want this to be written on a finger ring?
Or have just not seen enough rings yet?

Looking at the Hanhart chronograph (not a chronometer) or stoppwatch or Stoppuhr: I thought this is a military item (reference book: K. Knirim "military watches" page 258). Was this also used by the BdM and HJ? But I am not a specialist on this. This item seems to be marked as school property, since the address is also given so it would not be stolen or returned if lost. Here I wonder about straight lines in the address' writing in relation to the shape of the RfS letters. They seem to be disproportional, this was the main quality problem I had on first sight.

The wristwatch marked >RfS Lesum< would also belong to the school then? I would say this was at least uncommon. If it was a personal item, why is there no occasion, year or name mentioned?

Punzen (puncheon?) were used to mark that something belongs to a company, party, organization, (also military organizations). We find that on a lot of cutlery, weapons, and other stuff, not only metal pieces but also leather sometimes. So items were not engraved but rather embossed (I am not sure about the English terms here). But this was normally not used for private pieces, these were engraved.

I have to admit: I don't know how these items came to the Netherlands (where I saw them on the net). I have never had these items in my hand. Also I am not a specialist on cufflinks, finger rings, watches and chronographs. I have never seen similar items from other schools, but I am not very familiar with TR stuff between 1935 and 1945. Are the engravings correct? Was Lesum referred to as a RfS? Did girls were cufflinks in those times? Or are these considered a male teacher's items? (Maybe there is a nice story behind it of a blond Dutch girl who attended the school at Lesum and later married her fiancé who was a HJ leader, and this is why these mixed items showed up here and now ...
But there are people out there who say you should buy the item and not the story - not even the engravings).
Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings or bored you with my thoughts. Maybe everything is totally different ... :ohmy:

A lot of differently engraved Hanhart military Stopwatches are out in the internet.
What are your opinions on this one? Is it an original HJ item now?

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There is a useful regulation (Kammerordnung der Hitler-Jugend) which governs the centralised storage and accounting of uniforms, sports equipment, books, furnishings and other items held by units. It states that all items belonging to the NSDAP were to be marked accordingly and that acceptable forms of marking were: ink stamp, metal stamp, cloth label, branding. The order gives an example of how an item should be marked (the exact wording) but it is clear that latitude was permitted.

A stopwatch is an item that would have been part of a sports equipment inventory of course and indeed they are mentioned specifically in the regulation. Engraving does seem a more appropriate method of marking a stopwatch so this all comes down to whether the engraving is period. Not rocket science of course but I wanted to mention the regulation to show the legitimacy of an item like this stopwatch being marked with a location.

Just to concentrate on the stopwatch: the school existed and the address is correct but what puts me off is the "RFS". The school in Lesum was not a Reichsführerinnenschule but rather an Obergau leader school in Gebiet 7. Females were not awarded the RFS cloth insignia after successful completion of a Reich-level leadership course so why is that same font being used for the "RFS" on a stopwatch ostensibly held in the storeroom of an Obergau female leadership school in Gebiet Nordsee? The fact that the "RFS" is also used on the wristwatch makes the whole thing even stranger. The cufflinks and the "RFS" ring only add to the overall feeling I have that this a bogus lot.
 
The engravings are not original.
In Netherlands you see many utensils with fake engraving like this
HJ SS NSB Jeugdstorm.
Someone has made ​​a hobby to make money with it:thumbdown:
 
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