Opinions on this Deutsches Jungvolk Fanfare and banner

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Hallo kameraden

what do you think about this item?

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For an accurate judgement , I would need a better more detailed scan of the trumpet banner .
 
Hello,

The HJ marking is OK for me. I have an identical trumpet in my collection. No doubt about it !

Best regards
Eric
 
What does it say ? ...gau? and how is the logo put on? Exactly, €900 because it has a logo with a swastika, and without? €50-? I would want many more, and clear photos of the logo first before i spent any penny. From these images i dont see how you could tell? I know that HOS did make, or at least offer for sale, many different trumpets for all organizations, but this one looks like a home-made conversion or Pimped upgrade from a zero to hero old trumpet....
 
I would not be surprised if this trumpet would come from the Sudetenland. Would the Marking be "Sudetengau"?.
If the price is € 900 for the trumpet and the DJ Banner, I think it is a good price for the both.
 
@Jo - Kraslice (Graslitz) Sudetengau.

Hi Dorn,

Obviously there were regulations governing instruments (we discussed one from 1941 here ) but I would be interested in hearing why the HJ badge is considered suspect. I'm guessing that the source of that information is a collector in Poland where the instrument was, ostensibly at least, made? What does he say exactly?
 
Hello Garry,

It is funny because mine comes from Poland, Bann 663 and I do not understand why this marking would be suspect ???.

Best regards

Eric
 
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The HOS ones i mentioned in post 5... nothing like this one though.

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Hello Garry,

It is funny because mine comes from Poland, Bann 663 and I do not understand why this marking would be suspect ???.

Best regards

Eric

Hi Eric,

Yes, it would be interesting to hear what the guy Dorn spoke to says about the mark.
 
Thank you for helping me.

I'll get soon,more pictures of the banner.I hope in good quality

My friend admit that music instruments are not his specialty,and he doesn't have your knowledge :blushing: .Then,he prevent me "be careful of the fake!"
 
Hello David,

here is the picture of my trumpet with the details of the Hj mark.
Best regards

Eric
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the banner, in details

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Here's a thread where instruments were discussed. According to that 1941 publication, there was no requirement to source a fanfare through the RZM. The requirement was that the instrument had to match the specifications set by the RJF. An example of a fanfare with an M10 marking is shown on that thread but it is the only one I'm aware of. The others are all generic fanfares from various manufacturers.

The RJF specified the following for the fanfare:

Es standard tuning
HJ eagle on the flare
750mm total length

However, this was 1941. There will have been a large variety of fanfares from different manufacturers being sold all over Germany and the Reich and so there isn't going to be a 'Hitler Youth' fanfare in my opinion - unless it has an RJF eagle and unless information can be found to show that the RZM M10 type in the thread I linked to is a standard type. The manufacturer's name must be the initial governing factor. If he was making fanfares pre-1945 then they could have been used by the Hitler Youth - that's really all we can say in my opinion.

The DJ fanfare banners were supplied through the RZM but during the period there were so many different variations/sizes that I don't think it's possible to give an answer on authenticity most of the time. This is definitely one of those items that needs to be smelled and handled.
 
I have an identical trumpet in my collection. No doubt about it !
Just an observation. The trumpet you have, is nowhere near "an identical trumpet" as this one. We have two very different trumpets here.
The one that started off this thread has only a manufacturers name, and a city/town/area name- stamped - The HJ diamond has been hand engraved, and looks nothing like yours. Also of interest, is that whatever is engraved (or acid etched) under the HJ diamond, is done in Gothic, and not in the same style as the original makers markings, meaning that the name as well as the diamond, were most certainly not done at the time of production/together, or by the same maker - during the same marking process.

Conclusion: The HJ diamond as well as name were done after the trumpet was made. When? well thats up to the owner to believe when he wants, 1939, or 2009 ...

The second trumpet has a very different HJ diamond engraved onto a large open space, and machine engraved lettering above.... most certainly not done by the manufacturer!

Conclusion: What evidence is that at all, to suggest that this trumpet has anything to do with the HJ ? None at all, it depends on what you want to believe. (or whatever grand story the seller can find)

The only thing that is certain, is that both trumpets shown here are nowhere near identical, they are very different, the HJ diamond is different as well as the writing/slogan. They are also not "an eagle" but a simple, (and 2 different) HJ diamonds.

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It is certain that the engraving was made after the manufacturing of these trumpets but that does not challenge their authenticity.
The engravings of these trumpets are certainly due to a personal initiative and during the same period.
 
but that does not challenge their authenticity.
Nothing challenges the authenticity of the trumpets, and nothing supports that the embellishments were done either before, or after 1945. The personal initiative could also be that of fleecing, turning a €80.- trumpet into a €900 trumpet.

If i had something like this, with engravings on, which i do of course, and if i wanted to be sure that the engraving was not done by Olaf Brosinjakski, yesterday, then i would examine, in detail, the engraving and the areas around it, i would look for the patina, because if the engraving was done during the period, then the surface that it is on, would have come into contact with all sorts of wear and tear, and under the microscope, you would clearly be able to see if what you were looking at, fitted in well with what you would expect to find, were it genuine.
 
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