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  1. #1

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    scarf knot, small version

    Hi,
    I got this used knot, made of one brown leather stripe, marked with three cuts. The edges are glued together. According to HJ uniforms, 1933, it could be the smaller version. HJ/BDM original, belonging to another organization or fake. What do you think?

    Thanks for viewing.

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  2. #2
    Hi Northwind,

    I don't think that there were different sizes. The 1934 manufacturing instructions for the toggle (Lederknoten) show that the HJ, DJ, BdM and JM all used a common item. This was repeated in 1936.

    As you say, the leather on yours is scored to give the impression of individual strips and as such it doesn't comply with the item described in the manufacturing instructions so strictly speaking, it isn't "HJ". As you know, these toggles were used before and after the TR period so difficult to say when yours might have been in use.

  3. #3

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    1933

    Thanks Garry,

    the picture from 1933 shows two sizes. That my idea was. Regards
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  4. #4
    Ah, I see what you mean. Okay, I'll revise what I said to "there was only one size when someone decided to sit down and write a set of rules" :)

    The problem you have with the toggle in post #1 is not its size but rather how it was made. The 1933 picture doesn't give any clues about construction obviously so you don't know how the two shown there were made and therefore whether yours would be a match. But, we have a full description from 1934 which shows that yours does not correspond to that pattern.

    If toggles for the youth were not like yours in 1934 it's unlikely that they were in 1933. What I mean is that the toggle shown in the 1933 picture is unlikely to be a one-piece item (one wide strip of leather) and indeed, "Aufbau u. Abzeichen der NSDAP" 1933 says that the toggle was "geflochten" so we have confirmation that the official toggle was tied but still, yours isn't like the 1934 style.

    Al of this doesn't mean that yours wasn't worn by an "HJ" but if it was, it wasn't the "official" version of the toggle.

  5. #5

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    I can follow your opinion and I agree. Otherwise my one stripe toggle is "geflochten" too. Lets wait for other posts here in our forum.

  6. #6
    Yes, it is "geflochten" of course but not in the same way as the 1934 toggle. As you say, yours is one wide strip of leather where the 1934 isn't. Yes, let's hear what others think.

  7. #7

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    I saw this drawing about lederknoten sizes (grosser/kleine) but I don't remember the source (Littlejohn?)
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  8. #8

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    Interesting. The question is: what is a "Dienstrock". Usually a "Rock" is belonging to women equipment. Does it mean "der kleine Knoten" is typically BDM? Is anyone here in posession of a little version? Please show us.

  9. #9
    Hi,

    The Dienstrock is a male item (jacket). Yes, when wearing that it would make sense to have a smaller version of the toggle. I'm still desperately searching through my stuff to find a reference for this size difference so that I have a date :)

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