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  1. #11
    No probs vox. Looking forward to hearing more. Roman numerals were used for Unterbann and Stamm in the HJ. The flag, thinking logically at least and ignoring the strange number or letter after '31', is showing 'Gefolgschaft 31 Unterbann IV'. As Darin says, this would more indicative of an early flag. A standardised flag of the period we're discussing here would be marked 'Gefolgschaft/Bann' so yours is a bit of an oddity when compared directly to the standard item. The green lettering and cord are also non-standard when compared to a 1940s period HJ Gefolgschaft flag as I'm sure you know. This may all be explained by digging further into the matter of the integration of the Untersteiermark into Gebiet Steiermark. Lots to explore here.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    No probs vox. Looking forward to hearing more. Roman numerals were used for Unterbann and Stamm in the HJ. The flag, thinking logically at least and ignoring the strange number or letter after '31', is showing 'Gefolgschaft 31 Unterbann IV'. As Darin says, this would more indicative of an early flag. A standardised flag of the period we're discussing here would be marked 'Gefolgschaft/Bann' so yours is a bit of an oddity when compared directly to the standard item. The green lettering and cord are also non-standard when compared to a 1940s period HJ Gefolgschaft flag as I'm sure you know. This may all be explained by digging further into the matter of the integration of the Untersteiermark into Gebiet Steiermark. Lots to explore here.
    Hello Garry. I dont know many about organization of HJ and DJ soo no about flags too. Only one friend once abona time when see flag say me something what he know about letters and organization here but dont know about change numbers in 1943 31 and 30.
    Green letter and cord (IMO) are Steiermark colour and if you can see Dienst auswaus (i put today) was Green . Maybi from that reasons was that unstandard colours by flag.

    By number if I understand good if "IV" unterbahn in which bahn thew was be ? Asking Maybi by us dont have many jung people for big organization and have only Bahns or Unterbahns , If that possible?

    I see must to learn more about some organizations in future but i hope my head will be to big for all ( organizations, items, good items fakes that all learn each day ...)

    regards. robi

  3. #13
    I've just added a post to your thread on the DJ ID Robi and yes, having seen the ID it does give a very good indication that this was the reason for the colour green being used. Yes, the Deutsche Jugend units were organised into Banne, Stämme, Gefolgschaften, Fähnlein so I imagine that the Heimatbund DJ were no different. As you say though, it's very likely that the number of boys was insufficient to warrant the raising of a Bann (around 3000 boys) and this would explain why the flag has no Bann number.

    The only question really left is what formation level the roman numeral is showing. In HJ terms it would be the Unterbann or Stamm so your flag must be saying either Gefolgschaft 31/Unterbann IV or Gefolgschaft 31/Stamm IV. That strange third number which looks like an unfinished 1 bothers me a little though. I wonder if that has any significance?

  4. #14

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    Hi Gary. That line looks like unfinished number is " / ". Glass shelf is the cause for such appearance. From what I understand is meant 31, as a number Gefolg. or gebita ? Or, if I understand it is meant number 31 for gebit and IV for either unterban or Stam? Exist a good internet site where the organizational structure of the HJ?

  5. #15
    No HJ flags show the Gebiet Robi but if this is a Deutsche Jugend (DJ) flag it's the first one I've personally seen so my knowledge on the conventions they used for marking their flags is very limited.

    I and others can help with detailed structure information on the Hitler Youth but I personally have nothing really on the DJ unit structure other than knowing the countries in which there were DJ units and that they were organised into Banne, Stämme, Gefolgschaften and Fähnlein.

    With this in mind I automatically read the markings on the flag as I would with a HJ flag but as I say, I don't have really detailed info on the DJ and I may be reading it incorrectly. I would say Gefolgschaft/Stamm or perhaps Gefolgschaft/Unterbann. The Gebiet number for Steiermark was 30. I see from the diagram in one of my other posts that the numbers of Gebiet Kärnten and Steiermark seem to have swapped. That is a mistake made by whoever put the map together because Gebiet Steiermark is still listed as Gebiet 30 in the 1943 NSDAP Organisationsbuch so the 31 on the flag can't be for the Gebiet.

    Perhaps a deeper look at the Steirischer Heimatbund may provide more detail.

  6. #16

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    Hi. I would to only how knows from flags number from which gebiet is flag ?

  7. #17
    On a standard HJ Gefolgschaft flag the Bann number will allow you to establish the HJ-Gebiet. Here's an example:

    Gefolgschaft flag is marked 12/381. This is Gefolgschaft 12/Bann 381. Using the tables at the link below shows Bann 381 as being within Gebiet 7 Nordsee.

    https://www.HJ-research.com/forum/f69/

    Your flag can't be easily identified unfortunately because it doesn't follow the numbering convention of the standard HJ flags.

  8. #18

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    I con not see your link )not have 25 post jet). About number I stupied think 31 is gebiet number because gebiet is 31 Stryria . And for that I dont understand. Yet I hope understand .For identification need Bahnn tabel . thanks. That is that. Yet I can only hope somebody oncetime reserch this our SHB org. and found document with bahn tabel from this our DJ or HJ organization.

  9. #19

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    Cool

    The rings and poles How Nice

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by vox View Post
    Thanks Gary. Yes thet your 2 maps explain bether end more. Interesting si Gau Kärnten and Gau Steiermark change numbers in 43. More will say tomorrow when I go to photo some 'my' HJ and DJ document from ours guys maybe explain something or say something . Question is if number 31 is HJ Gebiet on flag what is IV ? If normal that number of gebiet is with numbers ? I am not expert of that items only learning that organization thinks from our area.

    Hello VOX !!
    Very good Flag pole DJ !!

    you collection very interesting ! Congratulations from Russia

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