Question about HJ flag - 0,95 x 1,50 meters & early Gefolgschaft flag

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Hello mates,

I have 2 questions.

Were flags with size 0,95 x 1,50 Meter in use as Scharfahne? Do you have any informations?

The 2nd question is about early Gefolgschaft flags. Are there small differences in size in comparison to later flags?

Many thanks and regards,
Sven
 
Hi Sven,

The Scharfahne is shown in 'Uniformen der HJ' from 1933 as being 100x150. On the 21st of March 1935 a revised list of units authorised to have flags was announced and so from that date the Scharfähne ceased to be an official flag and all had been removed from service by the 1st of May 1935. Some may have been retained by units as Traditionsfahnen but these would have been kept for display purposes only and were not allowed to be carried during marches etc.

I'll have a look for info on the Gefolgschaft flags but I'm sure Wim and others will have info to add too.
 
Hi Garry,

thank you very much, great informations as always. But why are some Scharfahnen with unit patch and some without? Is it possible to figure out the periods when which flags were used? Also it would be interesting to know which kind of pöle and maybe pole top was used.

With the best wishes,
Sven
 
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Garry, I think the sizes were mentioned in the HJ Verordnungsblatt in about 1935, when the new
flag-order was published. Due to the various meetings from Dutch vets in the last week, this and
next week I did and will not have much time to unpack (just saw the Vorschriftenhandbuch). In
between all of the visits and meetings I take a glance at the forums and my mail.
 
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There's a hole right through the length dimension from a hole punch Wim :) The VHB lists the relevant VOBl though so the dimension is shown in the VHB.

Sorry Sven, I put the wrong dimension in my post above (I've corrected it now).

Here is a Scharfahne from Bann B17 showing that it had a pocket for the carrying pole as opposed to rings. I can't find anything that says whether this was standard practice on the Scharfahne unfortunately. What I can say is that the Schar was introduced as a formation in April 1932 so the flags were only in use for a relatively short period. We should be able to find some pictures though to show the differences between flags during that period.

Gefolgschaftsfahne size:
1933: 120x180
1935 on: 120x180
 
Hi Garry,

I know the B17 very well, this flag is part of my collection since a while. Today I got a flag with the same pocket but different swastika and without corner patch. So it would be interesting to find some period pics.
The later Gefolgschaftsfahnen are a little bid smaller and the swastika and corner patch is also different. Would be interesting to know if the old GF flags were replaced by the new flags.

Regards,
Sven.
 
Ah yes, that's yours now :)

Yes, certainly in accordance with the regulation I mentioned the flags should have been replaced for not meeting the new standard on size. They would have been removed from service by the 1st of May 1935.

Edit: do you have dimensions for a pre-1933 Gef. flag?
 
Just a quick one on the Gefolgschaft flags Sven: the Gefolgschaft and the Schar were introduced as units by Hartmann Lauterbacher (the later Stabsführer) who was the Gauführer of Gau Braunschweig at the time. He was tasked with a reorganisation and presented this new structure on the 4th of April 1932. The old Ortsgruppen were redesignated as either 'Schar', 'Gefolgschaft' or 'Bezirk' depending on their size. Now, this means that dedicated Schar and Gefolgschaft flags can only date to 4th of April at the earliest. The reason for the variation where there were flags with and without corner patches and flags of different sizes is, I suspect, just a reflection of the rapidly growing and changing Hitler Youth during that early period. No wonder they standardised everything in 1933!
 
Ok, 1933 was the reorganisation and the Banne were created, so I guess Gefolgschaft flags with corner patch were introduced in this time 1933 or am I wrong? And later the RZM made their regularies, maybe 1935?

I have no dimension of an pre 33 flag.
My new one (old style GF flag I think) is 180 x 120, the arms of the swastika are thinner and the patch is 16 x 11 cm.
A newer one is approx. 173 x 116, the patch is 19,5 x 13,5 cm.
When I find some time, I have a look at all my GF flags.
 
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