Understanding Hitler Youth unit numbers

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Hi my friends,

I would like to know more about a common part of the normal flags and pennats.

As you know, many flags have a couple of numbers in one of its corners, for example: 81 / 171.

Can anybody help me to know what does it mean? Bann? Unterbann?

As example, please find attached a couple of pictures from the old collection from Kevin S

Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Antonio

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Antonio, in the second photo the first number is the Fahnlien for DJ or Gefolgschaft for HJ and the second number after the slash is the Bann or Jungbann number.
 
The Fahnleinfahne in the first photo is discussed in the new Saris book. The book states this would be an early designation for Jungbann 1/25 Aachen Stadt from West Mittelrhein Gebiet. The III is for Fahnlien 3 of Jungbann 1/25. The name "Korner" is an honor designation used by the Fahnlien for Oscar Korner who was killed at the Feldherrnhalle on Nov. 9,1923.
 
Hi Darin,

I understand now. Thanks for everything!!! So for example 81/171 would be Gefolschaft 81, Bann 171, Sued Baden, right?

Thanks.

Regards

Antonio
 
Yes, that's correct Antonio. Don't get confused between Bann names and the Obergebiet/Gebiet though :) My lists show the Bann number and the Obergebiet/Gebiet only. I left the Bann names off the lists because they weren't necessary for the purpose of the thread. So, for a Gefolgschaft flag the numbers would mean:

81/171 --- Gefolgschaft 81/Bann 171 Mannheim.

Bann 171 was located within Obergebiet Süd/Gebiet 18 Baden

As Darin has said, the second item is showing the Jungbann number 1/25.

The first item is however confusing. It is a Fähnlein flag and this is obvious given that the Fähnlein honour name has been applied but the numbering system used is confusing. The numbering convention for the Fähnlein was arabic (1, 2, 3 etc). Roman numerals were used for Jungstamm* (DJ) and Unterbann (HJ). With that in mind the flag could be read as:

'Fähnlein Körner/Jungstamm* III/Jungbann 1-25' or

'Fähnlein III Körner/Jungbann 1-25'.

*Jungstamm later became Stamm

Thinking logically the first version is more correct in my opinion because the second version misses out a complete organisational structure (Stamm) but it's not always easy to know with the early items. No wonder the RJF standardised everything later!
 
Using the example of 81/171 a uniform for the Gefolgschaft would have straps with the number 171 for the Bann, the shoulder strap button should have the number 81 for the Gefolgschaft, and the Gebietsdreiecke would be Süd/Baden for a "textbook" uniform in 1938 for a member of this unit.
 
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