NSD Oberschule Feldafing dagger "Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit"

Garry's signature janjan: "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

You
are saying that this knives are real and you were politely asked to talk about why you say this. You have the burden of proof but you are angry not us here. Members of this forum are showing you that no information is known on these knives. No one is just saying that you r wrong. They tell you simply that they know of no source or picture from before 1945 showing this knife. You are only one who believe that they are real here but you are refusing to aknowledge that you only "proof" is Ron Weinand and his phantom catalog. I am sorry that you are angry but why do you not attack Ron Weinand?? He convinced you this knife is real. Am I wrong?
 
yes that is what I meant but in this day and age with all the facts on the table these all lean toward being fakes and as I said one must use extreme caution and due diligence . IMO if t here is the slightest doubt with anything in this field run away fast. Jo is certainly very adamant in his thoughts and in your face and this is truly what is needed to wake folks up to the fact we are being duped on a grand scale so JO please keep us asking the right questions you do have many listeners :canada1
 
I think metalwaren fabrik like to give a negtive raction it givsa good feeling
nobody can proof but nobody can proof the bayonets don`t exist
something you don`t can profe don`t exist?

Well you think wrong, and your attitude, and blasé approach to history, is the reason that the fat cats, have gotten fatter. Drink their milk if you like, but i would first like to know what tit it was squeezed from before i`ll toutch it! Yeah-yeah-yeah, they`ll tell you it came from a cow, but more than likely it came from an old monkey, with aids! -and a club foot!
 
perhaps you should all read the book by Johannes Leeb "Wir waren Hitlers Eliteschüler"
Former students are wrighting the experiance the had on the school.
In the chapter "Feldafing war das Glück meiner Jugend" (Hans Fischbach)
Mr Fischbach is wrichting about the uniform and the bayonet on page 48
 
Janjan, I am curious to know in what year this Fischbach was at Feldafing?
This name is not listed with the names for the various classes (I have lists
with names from all classes from 1934/1935 through 1942/1943).
I find a similar name in there as: Hans Fischach from Munich! Hans was formerly
in a Realschule at Munich.

Can you please tell me the names and the dates for the documents you show in post 1,
as well as the names for the teachers (Erzieher)?
Is it correct with one document I see the name Werner Dietz? He was in the year
1934/1935 in the 5th class, according the Schüler-Verzeichnis. He actually was from
Feldafing and cam from the Realschule. He may have had during the school-year
1934/1935 the students-number: 43
He was still at the school in school-year 1936/1937 as a student in class 7.
 
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here a picture of fischbach in uniform

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Confirmation has been given on another forum that the page quoted by Mr Weinand as proof for the period existence of these knives can not be found. The current owner of the catalogue says that the relevant page is "not there now".

This would now put the weight of evidence for these knives into the same category as that of the "DJ" knife. If janjan's dagger knife is a period item it will be necessary to find an alternative source of proof.
 
Due to lack of time I do not know if I am able to dig through the year-books I have from Feldafing.
Pitily I do not have all the school-years, but I can have a look in:
1934/1935, 1936/1937, 1938/1939, 1940/141 and 1942/1943. In every year-book there are stories and
notes, but to read them all needs some time (which I do not have at the moment.
Maybe not even information about the uniform or dagger/bayonet is told about.
It may interest that before 1942 teachers largely did wear the SA-uniform and had SA-ranks; since
mid-war this was changed into ranks as for political leaders.
 
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Hi Wim,

It would be great to find some period confirmation one way or the other so I look forward to hearing about what you find.
 
Would i be incorrect to say that Hitler himself, did not like Sütterlin schrift, and from (i think) late 1941 changed it in the schools?

Forgetting that this "proof" comes from the late Major James Atwood (a known US-forger of fantasy etchings, and complete fantasy blades and daggers, as well as forging documents) what about the weird motto... Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit.. how would a slogan like this, fit in with the actual school discussed here?
 
Just looking through Google Books and the motto is mentioned a number of times in a couple of books (I've ignored the collector books). They say that the bayonet was worn by pupils from Class 6 onwards and only when wearing the "Gala-Uniform" (apparently a uniform worn only on special occasions). This is mentioned in the book quoted by janjan and also in "Alfred Herrhausen: eine deutsche Karriere" but what we need is a footnote containing a verifiable source. The book "No Sir, Undebt" for example, has a section describing a boy's equipment and uniform but no knife or bayonet is mentioned. This could either mean that he can't recall a bayonet/knife or indeed that he was not yet in Class 6 if the previously mentioned sources are correct.
 
They say that the bayonet was worn by pupils from Class 6
I had this same xxxx with CG with his bogus Himmler school books. The 6. Klasse back then would mean you were 14 years old! A 14 year old tooled up with a bayonet, with a sütterlin motto that has no meaning, at a special school? OK, a few more beers and i might just fall for it!
 
I think much is possible.
What do we know about an exchange of students with the USA, anyway in the school-year 1938/1939:
Helmut Scheid from Weilheim was send to Andover in the USA;
Frank Lee from the Choate School (USA) was at Feldafing, at the 7th class;
Theodor Loch from Günzburg from the 7th class was at the Choate School (USA);
Horst Simons from Feldafing from the 7th class was send to Andover (USA).

In the school-year 1940/1941 during the course various members left the institution
to join the Armed Forces. These lads anyway were from class 7 and 8. Many from the
lower classes left the institution during the school-year 1940/1941 (reasons were not given).
 
I hardly did find the motto when I googled. Just the motto was mentioned at auction-houses and dealers.
BUT.....
On page 310 from the well-known and excellent Harald Scholz-book: National-sozialistischen Ausleseschulen
from 1973 there is written:
Auf die Seitengewehre der Jungmannen liess er statt "Mehr sein als scheinen" eingravieren "Ehre Kraft Freiheit".
With "er" is meant Goerlitz (the leader for the Reichsschule der NSDAP at Feldafing), the year is possibly 1941.
Goerlitz was ranked as Reichsamtsleiter within the structures for political leaders and as SA-Brigadeführer at that moment.
Further he was an Oberstleutnant zur Verwendung.

So, the word Seitengewehr (bayonet) was specifically used and not Messer, Dolch or Ehrenwaffe.
I do believe Scholz might be correct and indeed a bayonet has existed. When he wrote the book (he was prepairing and writing since 1970)
such a bayonet was not ever offered at a European auction-house in the seventies. And what do we know from dealers from that period. They
only had lists they send out. When they even had lists!!!
 
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So, the word Seitengewehr (bayonet) was specifically used and not Messer, Dolch or Ehrenwaffe.
I do believe Scholz might be correct and indeed a bayonet has existed. When he wrote the book such a bayonet was not ever
offered at a European auction-house in the seventies. And what do we know from dealers from that period. THey only had
lists they send out.
Wim, i have to say i dont agree, if this is coming from Atwood, which it has been said it is, then it dates back to the mid 1960s. (and possibly to the mid 1950s when he started)
Is there a pointer in the book you mention to support where this comes from? If people (authors) are still quoting rubbish today, written in 1990 or 1980, then in 1973 it would pertain as well. (all the more, because that was the time the TR business took-off) And from a small badge point of view, i know that even in 1973 many "authors" were simply quoting what they had read at that time, i:e: that latest news on the market/available at that time.

I hav`nt read the book you are quoting from, so dont know if it is "excellent" but, is there a footnote, or a point back, or a way to verify? Or is it just the opinion of one person?
 
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