Süd Franken - HJ and BDM

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Yeah, my collection is growing.

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Nick, there are differing opinions on this. The Saris book goes into some detail about the lettering changes. He seems to feel the "early" patterns are a more elegant lettering. There was a definite change of lettering in the 1935 to 1936 era. It's confusing because some triangles with the "early" style lettering were used throughout the war as existing stocks would have been issued up. I tend to agree with Saris but others have differing opinions.
 
Here's my Berlin triangles. Notice the top one is very well made with elegant script, I feel this is the "early" pattern. Saris mentions in particular the "swallow tail top" on some of the lettering when addressing "early" triangles. The bottom left is a lesser quality and the bottom right is also not as high quality manufacture, so I feel they are "late" pattern wartime made.

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Were the fonts different according to the date they were manufactured or because of the different makers?

Nick[/QUOTI

In my opinion , it is both ...The style of the lettering did change around mid 1936 and there were also different manfuctures of the Gebietsderieck with the own style with slite variations .
 
I agree there is a time period but fonts changed from maker to maker also when designs changed it did not mean everyone torn down their insignia and replaced them there was always a wear out clause. Much of this stuff was not issued and was purchased by the individual or the group so IMO there was significant overlap and to say a piece is a certain date may not be true

PAUL
 
If you look in the Articles section there is defienetly a "regulation" font published with the RZM. I would be surprised to see a maker that continued to use the "early" style lettering after the regulations were announced. The "later" style lettering differs from maker to maker, but it all looks pretty close to what is shown in the 1936 regulations. The so called "early" lettering differs wildly IMHO than the lettering shown in the regulations. Here's the lettering shown in the regs, compare that to the Berlin on the top in the photo I posted and you can see what I am refering to. Just my .02

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YES we know of the RZM order or suggested fonts instruction and there are some of that pre 1936 font but not by all. These where made early on in the thousands and stocks had to be used up nothing wasted. I maintain the only true dating can be done on those districts that underwent name changes and ceased to exist after a certain date . As I say above in 1936 everyone did not take down their triangles and replace them because a paper was issued with a different looking font that said the same thing
 
I'm only refering to the manufacture of the items, not the dates they were worn. It's my opinion that newly manufactured triangles after the 1936 regulations came out were made in the newer lettering pattern. The older lettering was no longer used in manufacturing after the new regs. came out. One thing to ponder regarding regulation changes is that I am sure there were also lots of pre 1938 pattern straps stockpiled, but after the new regulations came out they were completley phased out. Same with Oberbann sigrunes which are now found mostly unissued.
 
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apples and oranges Darrin the straps where a complete change ie colour but there are still odd pictures which show up with the early straps still worn on dated pics . The triangles remained constant in size shape and colour the only change was in quality
 
I encourage everyone who has access to read the Saris book pages 30 to 43 very carefully and refer to the footnotes in regard to lettering on HJ triangles and decide for yourself. There is a lot of information on this backed up by period publications so read the footnotes as well. As I stated initially there are differing opinions on this subject and I think there has been good debate in this thread.
 
Conserning the shoulderstrap color change ..........
I have two straps in my collection that are black wool Hj style straps . They would problibly be considered transitional style.
One has black wool top and bottom sides with white piping and white embroidered # 17 .
The other has a piece of black wool sewn to the bottom of a pre 1937 style brown strap with the numbers embroidered in red on the black wool .
I have also seen period brown pre 37 straps that have been dyed black during the transitional period .
 
I encourage everyone who has access to read the Saris book pages 30 to 43 very carefully and refer to the footnotes in regard to lettering on HJ triangles and decide for yourself. There is a lot of information on this backed up by period publications so read the footnotes as well. As I stated initially there are differing opinions on this subject and I think there has been good debate in this thread.

I caution anyone who uses this book to take much of the info with a grain of salt as the author in many cases uses conjecture and personal opinion not fact in his thoughts as seen many of the pictures shown are his interpretation of what it might have looked like. Like most everything read and question
 
I caution anyone who uses this book to take much of the info with a grain of salt as the author in many cases uses conjecture and personal opinion not fact in his thoughts as seen many of the pictures shown are his interpretation of what it might have looked like. Like most everything read and question

Yes keep an open mind as always, but also recognize that in many cases period sources are quoted in the book for information regarding this subject. I caution people not to take opinion as hard fact also, as the debate regarding early pattern Landjahr triangles quickly changed when photos were shown in this publication.
 
I was refering to the differnt colors for male and female examples Paul. I believe it was you who first posed the question if there was only one version, and many of us were under the impression that only white lettered early examples existed.
 
AND please don't take offense to me personally , it is a problem I have question everything worth questioning . Like the evening news one station has its political agenda FOX and the other thinks different CNN so listen to both and juggle the truth.
 
AND please don't take offense to me personally , it is a problem I have question everything worth questioning . Like the evening news one station has its political agenda FOX and the other thinks different CNN so listen to both and juggle the truth.

I am never offended when discussing HJ with you Paul. I appreciate all of your input and opinions even when we disagree on a subject.
 
I was refering to the differnt colors for male and female examples Paul. I believe it was you who first posed the question if there was only one version, and many of us were under the impression that only white lettered early examples existed.
.

yes that was me of course so see the book does have its uses if for nothing better than a grand debate on boxing day LOL

paul
 
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