Ukraine

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I just recently got some pictures of the HJ/BDM in the Ukraine.
What area triangle would they be wearing?
I will post the pictures as soon as I scan then and get the rest of them in.
 
There was no official triangle for Befehlstelle Ukraine as far as I'm aware. It'll be very interesting to see the photos.

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Yes , Please post scans .

As far as I know these youths from eastern areas just wore an armband of their nationality .
 
I will try and post the pictures on Tuesday.
The pictures were official photos taken for Oberbefehlshaber der NSDAP Claus Selzner in Dnjepropetrowsk.
I do not have them all yet.
Bobby
 
I am going to post the whole grouping even though not all HJ/BDM related.
I will hopefully have the rest later this week.

OK - It is impossible to read what is on the triangle.
I can only make out that it is 2 lines.
1st line looks like a 3 letter word and the 2nd line is a rather lengthy word.

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This is one of the other pictures from the Ukraine that shows the HJ and was taken in Dnjepropetrowsk.

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Difficult to know without seeing more photos/information/dates what exactly is going on here Bobby. It would be cool to see a high resolution scan of the leader's triangle in your last picture if you can upload one. I'm pretty sure it will show that the boy is German HJ though.
 
Thanks for the bigger scans Bobby. After looking at them I'm fairly certain that the triangle on the concert photo is Ost Generalgouvernement. Poland shares a border with the Ukraine so a visit would seem to be the logical conclusion. If I could see a Bann or Jungbann number on those straps I could confirm that 100% but I'm confident that the triangle is Ost Generalgouvernement.

The Kameradschaftsführer in the other picture seems to be wearing an Adolf Hitler school triangle. Possibly 'AHS/Heiligendamm. What does everyone think?


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These are part of a larger group of photos.I tried to buy the whole set and was in negotiation with the dealer,but alas for whatever reason he never got back to me:confused:I did alittle home work on these and this is waht I can add.This was after Stalingrad and before the grand second offensive.
It was also after the Heydrich assassination.
Things were running fine in Czech until Heydrich's death then, just as the British had hoped, the nazi's over-reacted with their brutality and pushed many a Czech away. Production dropped and many more troops were needed in that area as well as skilled workers.
They didn't want this to happen to their main food supply- the Ukraine. They were already infested with underground communists trying to persuade workers over to their side- with passive resistance to outright sabotage.
The whole area was a powder keg and could not be remedied by brute force.
State Food Admister Herbert Backe (the equivalent to Albert Speer with regards to ingenuity in the food supply chain for Germany/Europe) was quick to grasp this and set the wheels in motion.
Backe was well-respected and personally liked by Heydrich, Himmler, Hitler and many Wehrmacht generals. In fact, this whole good-will mission was pretty much his idea and initiative.
He worked with Schwerin von Krosigk and Scwartz for the financial backing to provide the Ukraine's with a better wage and health benefit program closely akin to the German citizen themselves.
He also had von Eltz-Rübenach's backing of some multi-thousand extra personnel to upgrade and make the mail system inside the Ukraine more efficient as an incentive to workers as well as a tangible sign of good will between territories.
 
great pics there is so much not known about the east. The russians came through in 44 and murdered anyone in uniform. The insignai of the east was from what we know very flamboyant with big eagles and very different shoulder and collar designs. There is no reason what so ever that district triangles where made for the eastern states where the survival rate was almost zero_One must keep a very open mind when dealing with this area of the reich

PAUL
 
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This subject has me thinking,and please forgive my lack of HJ insignia knoeldge,Did the Gerneral Government triangle indeed exsist and would it have been used in the Ukraine?I have seen General Government triangles for sale but in each case I had questions of it being authenic.
 
Wally without a doubt the triangle exists. Male examples are tough to find, but I have owned a female BDM, and several other members here have them or have owned them. I was under the belief that they were for Poland, but it just makes sense they would be used in all the eastern territories.
 
The Generalgouvernement triangle was for a section of Poland only actually Darin (the parts which were not incorporated into the Reich). There is no evidence currently that a Ukraine triangle was produced and Saris' information suggests that the strength of the HJ in Befehlsstelle Ukraine would not have warranted one.

Unlike Befehlsstelle Niederlande (triangle West/Niederlande) the HJ in the Ukraine was not organised into Banne so for me that's another nail in the coffin for the existence of an Ost/Ukraine or Ukraine triangle. As ever though, the search continues for final proof.
 
here is an extract from Angolia's first ref book in black and white but I wish to draw your attention to the oft generalguvermant triangle meaning they where issued by area also is this the smoking gun?

PAUL


ALSO notice the white BDM insignia lower left first time I have seen this acknowledged so more to think about yah

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