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  1. #11

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    Thanks for the detective work.

  2. #12

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    These are part of a larger group of photos.I tried to buy the whole set and was in negotiation with the dealer,but alas for whatever reason he never got back to me:confused:I did alittle home work on these and this is waht I can add.This was after Stalingrad and before the grand second offensive.
    It was also after the Heydrich assassination.
    Things were running fine in Czech until Heydrich's death then, just as the British had hoped, the nazi's over-reacted with their brutality and pushed many a Czech away. Production dropped and many more troops were needed in that area as well as skilled workers.
    They didn't want this to happen to their main food supply- the Ukraine. They were already infested with underground communists trying to persuade workers over to their side- with passive resistance to outright sabotage.
    The whole area was a powder keg and could not be remedied by brute force.
    State Food Admister Herbert Backe (the equivalent to Albert Speer with regards to ingenuity in the food supply chain for Germany/Europe) was quick to grasp this and set the wheels in motion.
    Backe was well-respected and personally liked by Heydrich, Himmler, Hitler and many Wehrmacht generals. In fact, this whole good-will mission was pretty much his idea and initiative.
    He worked with Schwerin von Krosigk and Scwartz for the financial backing to provide the Ukraine's with a better wage and health benefit program closely akin to the German citizen themselves.
    He also had von Eltz-Rübenach's backing of some multi-thousand extra personnel to upgrade and make the mail system inside the Ukraine more efficient as an incentive to workers as well as a tangible sign of good will between territories.

  3. #13
    great pics there is so much not known about the east. The russians came through in 44 and murdered anyone in uniform. The insignai of the east was from what we know very flamboyant with big eagles and very different shoulder and collar designs. There is no reason what so ever that district triangles where made for the eastern states where the survival rate was almost zero.One must keep a very open mind when dealing with this area of the reich

    Last edited by Paul Ayerst; 4th July 2009 at 03:37 AM.

  4. #14

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    This subject has me thinking,and please forgive my lack of HJ insignia knoeldge,Did the Gerneral Government triangle indeed exsist and would it have been used in the Ukraine?I have seen General Government triangles for sale but in each case I had questions of it being authenic.

  5. #15
    Wally without a doubt the triangle exists. Male examples are tough to find, but I have owned a female BDM, and several other members here have them or have owned them. I was under the belief that they were for Poland, but it just makes sense they would be used in all the eastern territories.

  6. #16
    The Generalgouvernement triangle was for a section of Poland only actually Darin (the parts which were not incorporated into the Reich). There is no evidence currently that a Ukraine triangle was produced and Saris' information suggests that the strength of the HJ in Befehlsstelle Ukraine would not have warranted one.

    Unlike Befehlsstelle Niederlande (triangle West/Niederlande) the HJ in the Ukraine was not organised into Banne so for me that's another nail in the coffin for the existence of an Ost/Ukraine or Ukraine triangle. As ever though, the search continues for final proof.

  7. #17
    That's good information Garry, thanks.:)

  8. #18
    here is an extract from Angolia's first ref book in black and white but I wish to draw your attention to the oft generalguvermant triangle meaning they where issued by area also is this the smoking gun?


    ALSO notice the white BDM insignia lower left first time I have seen this acknowledged so more to think about yah
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Paul Ayerst; 5th July 2009 at 01:50 AM.

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