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  1. #11

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    Any ideas on the number question I posed concerning:

    2/VI/73

  2. #12
    I would think this designation is for Gefolgschaft, Stamm, and Bann respectively. It would be Gefolgschaft 2, Stamm VI, and Bann 73. Bann 73 was in Obergebiet Nord, HJ Gebiet 8 Niedersachsen. I don't have the Bann name of Bann 73, but both Banns mentioned are in the same Gebietsdistrict.

  3. #13

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    Maybe they had the old and new designations on this flag. Meaning, it was gefolgschaft 2, bann 73 and then it was changed to 1/445?

    No idea what the VI was for--gebeit VI?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gefolgschaft View Post
    I would think this designation is for Gefolgschaft, Stamm, and Bann respectively. It would be Gefolgschaft 2, Stamm VI, and Bann 73. Bann 73 was in Obergebiet Nord, HJ Gebiet 8 Niedersachsen. I don't have the Bann name of Bann 73, but both Banns mentioned are in the same Gebietsdistrict.
    Thanks, makes sense now. However, it does look like they added the new bann number of this MHJ unit to the flag under the old designation. If this is so, Bann 73 might also be Hoya but it could also indicate that the boys were making the point that while they are now officially Hoya (445) they were still proud of Bann 73 which might have been an entirely different place.

    Beitzen
    Last edited by beitzen7; 5th October 2009 at 03:52 AM.

  5. #15
    Yes. I remember being asked about this flag some time ago. The flag is very interesting because it appears to be for two different units which is of course, on paper at least, completely wrong. However, when I first saw the flag it was pretty clear that it wasn't just a bad fake put together by someone with no idea of the structure of the HJ and the meaning and purpose of these flags so what I think is going on with this flag is this:

    You have two seperate identifiers:

    Bann 73/Unterbann VI/Gefolgschaft 2
    A seperately applied blue strip of material with '1/445 Hoya' (Possibly a MHJ tally) directly below the Bann 73 patch.

    As I said, doesn't make sense on first inspection but... there is a link between these Banne and here is what happened:

    Bann 73 was originally called Mittleweser but was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1935/6. Part of the territory previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya which was created during the same reorganisation. This raises the possibility then that the area covered by Gefolgschaft 2 of Bann 73 now belonged to Bann 445 Hoya meaning that the flag was redundant. That in turn raises the further possibility that this flag, rather than being disposed of, was put into use by Gefolgschaft 1 of Bann 445 Hoya until its own flag was made and issued. A transitional flag if you like. The appearance of the flag with its two-colour cord and Unterbann marking definitely places it in the period where the reorganisation took place so from that perspective my scenario works too.

    Whether the scenario is actually true we'll probably never know but what is true is that there was a definite link between Bann 73 and Bann 445 due to the reorganisation in 1935/36 and that the flag configuration (if you overlook the 1/445 tally) is correct for that period.

    I really like the flag and nearly bought it myself when it was on offer but I just didn't have the cash free at the time. A very interesting item.

  6. #16
    Makes sense Garry. Would like to see a more pictures of the flag. Would also like to see the early straps from the Bann. Straps normally only go up to unterbann 5, so I wonder if these would go to 6 as the Fahne does.
    Last edited by Gefolgschaft; 5th October 2009 at 01:06 PM.

  7. #17

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    Thanks Garry and Gefolgschaft--

    The tally is a Form 2 type, the Form 1 have MHJ....., the Form 2 like this one.

    The Form 2 was approximately from 1939-1945, the Form 1 1933-1938 as I understand it. Various other forms existed prior to 1933.

    Images of the entire flag attached.

    Beizen
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by beitzen7; 5th October 2009 at 05:12 PM.

  8. #18
    No probs Beizen. Interesting that the tally is a type 2 but whatever the reason for it being on the flag is it doesn't detract from it one little bit in my opinion. There is a definite link between the units, albeit dating back to the period before the introduction of the attached tally, and I think you have a really nice item there.

  9. #19

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    Thanks Garry. A cut tally is sewn to both sides of the flag, not just one by the way. No doubt in my mind that to sew two tallies on this unit flag was intentional for whatever reason--yours making perfect sense.

    Beitzen

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