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  1. #11

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    i can see what your saying pat with regards to the suicide bombing, but if he was able to would hitler, or any of the others sent young HJ members with explosives on suicide missions, i somehow dont think they would have.
    theres a diff hitler wanted the kids to grow up and take the third reich onward, where as current terrorist leaders see the kids as explosive carriers.
    so even thought both where similar in the way they where mentally corrupted both are very different in the reasons for it

  2. #12

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    I agree with that the HJ was mentally corrupted and indeed the reasons are very different but the outcome are both the same,but you have to look at it in context of the time.Was Germany on the winning hand in the war these youngsters would have a totally different life.I have a deep respect for those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the final stages of the war,but if they weren't brainwashed there would a lot of HJ that would have survived,it all comes down to your believes and how strongly you believe in them.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PatBateman View Post
    Yes of course it is both. I mean, kids are still getting brainwashed today with product placement, their peers, television telling them who to be and how to think and what to buy and soforth, but I guess the Third Reich took it to the next level.

    Also, in my humble opinion a HJ camp is no more of a brainwashing exercise than a church camp. Sorry if that's out of line, but it's my honest opinion.
    I have to agree with what Pats feelings are here.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatBateman View Post
    Yes of course it is both. I mean, kids are still getting brainwashed today with product placement, their peers, television telling them who to be and how to think and what to buy and soforth, but I guess the Third Reich took it to the next level.

    Also, in my humble opinion a HJ camp is no more of a brainwashing exercise than a church camp. Sorry if that's out of line, but it's my honest opinion.

    have to agree with you there.

    kids growing up do need direction and role models. its a fact. How it is done really depends on the social, cultural and moral climate that the kids are growing up in.

  5. #15

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    As viewed from the privileged position of hind sight or from the far more difficult to understand point of view of the times they were living in?

    Both will give a diametrically opposing view, IMHO

    Tony


    Quote Originally Posted by stuart View Post
    okay guys,
    the hitler youth
    1. a great organisation where kids learned new skills,made new friends learned to work as a team,and had fun in general including trips and national and regional games

    or

    2. a brain-washing system where kids where duped and led to believe what they where told to believe, and even though it was unknown to them in training to become future third reich soldiers and cannon fodder

    DISCUSS

  6. #16

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    Brainwashing today has reached a new level in this country ,

    Tell youngsters not to drink , then open boozers 24 hours a day,,

    dont take drugs , but down grade dope ,,and if youve got 2 kilos for your own use its ok:eek:

    I wont get to much into the garbage we are feed by the media , suffice to say the only person i believe is my mum:D

    the powers that be that feed us this bull **** make the germans look like choir boys

  7. #17

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    Sad but true, and one of the reasons I left dear old Blighty

    Quote Originally Posted by zander View Post
    Brainwashing today has reached a new level in this country ,

    Tell youngsters not to drink , then open boozers 24 hours a day,,

    dont take drugs , but down grade dope ,,and if youve got 2 kilos for your own use its ok:eek:

    I wont get to much into the garbage we are feed by the media , suffice to say the only person i believe is my mum:D

    the powers that be that feed us this bull **** make the germans look like choir boys

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by zander View Post
    Brainwashing today has reached a new level in this country ,

    Tell youngsters not to drink , then open boozers 24 hours a day,,

    dont take drugs , but down grade dope ,,and if youve got 2 kilos for your own use its ok:eek:

    I wont get to much into the garbage we are feed by the media , suffice to say the only person i believe is my mum:D

    the powers that be that feed us this bull **** make the germans look like choir boys
    I have seen this in Ireland and also in Spain. It is a real pity.

    I grew up in a really strict catholic school. They used to say us to "encourage" studying: "La letra con sangre entra", meaning "the letter (*) with blood gets better" meaning that or study or pain, sometimes both.

    Far too brutal education, but I have to admit that I learn was respect was. I learn what sacrifice was, I learn many things.

    Having said that, we also had our "days out" to the mountains, or our songs, or the pride of being the best school in town, etc.

    I must say that when I was 14, I was really religous, bit right winged already (I had to see Franco portrait almost everyday... he was already 15 years dead!!).

    Then, life changes and situation changes. Now, I do not believe in the Church at all, but I must say that I am proud of the education that I received (sometimes brutal):

    - I respect people at 100%. Listen to them and learn from them.
    - I have learnt to sacrifice myself and take care of myself wherever I am. Now I am working in Germany in the finance area, 9 years ago I went to Ireland with no English to wash by hand over 1000 plates a day. No problem.
    - Education, Education and Education.
    - I have learn to be part of be part of something. To respect my colleagues in the group and be a kamerad.

    And guys, watching today the youth, I can not see anythng like that.

    Dont get me wrong, the HJ or my education was a constant brainwash. But I must say that since I was 6 until I was 14, for 8 years, I learnt many, many things which help me up to today.

    Regards

    Antonio

  9. #19

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    Anyonio , you put it into words better than i ever could there, is nothing wrong with a hard upbringing as long as you are taught values

    The translation that gary carried out for me regarding the summer camp sums it up for me,and is well worth reading again , todays children spend to much time in front of computer games , i read in the mail this week that the boy scouts are to be disarmed of ther knifes , the PC brigade at it again are children not allowed to have any fun.....


    steve

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    This is going to be a dull answer but there were elements of both scenarios in my opinion.

    I see your second point happening after 1940 when the state forced children to join the HJ. Von Schirach always resisted the press-ganging of children because he wanted children to see joining the HJ as a matter of honour and he continued with that stance despite the first youth law in 1936 but the 2nd youth law was the one which I think marked the divide between your first and second scenarios. After 1940 it was a different organisation.
    You are right Garry, the second law "the entire German Youth within the territory of the Reich is to be co -ordinted into the Hitler Youth" was a defining moment. The 3rd Law on March 25th 1939 " all adolescents between 10 and 18 are obligated to put in service in the HJ" resulted in political sanctions for members who decided to leave and jail for anyone refusing to join. I believe even the Gestapo got involved !
    After 1939 they were trained to face the reality of war! A different HJ to the early days of camping, walking and spiritual hymn singing!

    Nick

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