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Being new to HJ collecting I would like to ask a question on some organisational terminology.
From a location point of view :
Does Obergebiet and Obergau mean the same thing ?
Also does Gau and Gebiet mean the same thing ?
If there is a place on the site to study this further please let me know.
Thought I'd start by understanding the organisation/structure.
You've come to the right place. The Untergau was the BDM equivalent of the HJ Bann. The Gau (not Obergau) was an NSDAP district whereas the Gebiet was a HJ district. The HJ Gebiet mostly but not always covered the same area as the NSDAP Gau.
In 1940 a major revision of the structure of the HJ took place and the result was that the BDM-Obergau was absorbed into the Bann.
I'll get some tables up in a moment. Give me ten minutes.
Quick edit: the Obergebiet was a structure which applied to all formations of the HJ (North, South etc). It was the top line on the area triangles worn on the left sleeve.
There were many revisions to the structure of the HJ but here are the two most important tables. They both show the units of HJ, DJ, BDM and JM going left to right across the page. At the bottom is the smallest unit of each respective arm and they go up in size towards the top.
The first table shows the final structure of the HJ prior to the 1940 revision made necessary by severe personnel problems due to the war. In the second table you can see that the BDM Obergau has now been absorbed by the Bann.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks for putting these up Garry.
Let me understand these first before I ask more questions.
No probs at all. Take your time P.
Seems to me the HJ structure remained unchanged in the transition from one table to the next.
The HJ Bann in the table at right has also absorbed the Untergau.
Was there another layer between Reichsjugendfuerung and Gebiet ? Logically to me it would be the Obergebiet (the top line on the triangle) with the bottom line of the triangle being the Gebiet ? So Ost would be Obergebiet and Berlin the Gebiet.
Last edited by Panther; 15th August 2009 at 01:38 PM.
Sorry for this late answer. Yes, early on the Obergebiet was commanded by an Obergebietsführer and his staff but after a reorganisation Stabsführer Lauterbacher removed the personnel leaving the Obergebiet as a structure only which is why they aren't shown on these diagrams. I should have pointed this out before but yes, you're right - the Obergebiete would come between Gebiet and Reichsjugendführung.
The main difference between the first and second diagrams is that the Obergau (BDM) is no longer a seperate command structure as it had previously been. Also the Untergau was now a Mädelring.
Always great to see both documents next to one another.
as usual garry has the answer alreaddy given to the questioner.:laugh:
your knowledge stays impressive to me.