Von Shirach and Axmann - meetings and correspondence

tony thank you so much for the detailed answer you have given to my question,i apolagise that the question had to make you work so hard to explain, but you have dont so in gret detail ,ill give a more straight forward one next time
thanks again
stu
 
tony thank you so much for the detailed answer you have given to my question,i apolagise that the question had to make you work so hard to explain, but you have dont so in gret detail ,ill give a more straight forward one next time
thanks again
stu


Anytime Stu it is good for to give the gray matter a stir from time to time...I enjoyed answering the questions.
 
You should write a book. It is really interesting to read it!

Thanks for everything.

Regards

Antonio
 
Thanks Tony. This does indeed raise an interesting question. Schirach's transition from Jugendführer to Gauleiter seems, when you read the literature, to have been straightforward. Hitler needed a replacement for Bürckel in Vienna - Von Schirach gets the job and an excellent testimonial from Hitler for his work with the youth and then Axmann gets the job. During the latter's period in office the HJ was finally turned into the organisation evidently envisaged by Axmann from very early on. It begs the question of whether Schirach may have been promoted in order that someone more sympathetic to the idea of militarising the HJ could take over. Axmann seems (with his vague answer at the top of your post) to be struggling to use the war to justify what happened to the HJ but further down the page he says that even early on he wanted a different future for the youth.
 
Thanks Tony. This does indeed raise an interesting question. Schirach's transition from Jugendführer to Gauleiter seems, when you read the literature, to have been straightforward. Hitler needed a replacement for Bürckel in Vienna - Von Schirach gets the job and an excellent testimonial from Hitler for his work with the youth and then Axmann gets the job. During the latter's period in office the HJ was finally turned into the organisation evidently envisaged by Axmann from very early on. It begs the question of whether Schirach may have been promoted in order that someone more sympathetic to the idea of militarising the HJ could take over. Axmann seems (with his vague answer at the top of your post) to be struggling to use the war to justify what happened to the HJ but further down the page he says that even early on he wanted a different future for the youth.

The difference in the two mens out look is reflected in their perception of both the future and Himmler, a big influence on both men.

I think the answer is along the lines of while von Schirach saw a more pastoral and management based HJ in a world of peace; Axmann on the other hand saw a junior arm of the SS - the elite, the best of the best. Which with the character of the man is not a surprise.

So we have von Schirach seeing the mysticism and folklore angle of the SS as more in line with his ideas; we see Axmann viewing it as a proving ground for the SS and the prestige that went with it
 
Thanks Tony.

Did von Schirach say more about the trial? Did you ask Axmann about that too?
 
Thanks Tony.

Did von Schirach say more about the trial? Did you ask Axmann about that too?

I asked about the trial and he recommended that I read the transcript first, which I did - I went on to read all 42 volumes - It raised a couple of questions that he answered but I really cannot be sure enough to quote them - it was a by-line at the time

Axmann and I never spoke of his trial, we spoke about actions and events up to his capture, which was the focus of my research at the time, the rest was a matter of record he said.
 
I love reading it tony and i want to thank you a whole lot for taking the trouble to tell us these storys simply amazing a true blast from the past so to say.
 
Most interesting and fascinating reading! Many thanks for sharing it with us.

Regards

Russ
 
Glad it has helped and entertained you guys......


As a side question I asked both men if they recalled a drinks party at a Nuremberg rally in 37-38 at which included several foreign visitors including an English student were present.

Sadly neither man could recall the event at which a British student was present.

The student became the British Prime Minister Edward Heath .
 
Thank you very much Tony for sharing with us something that would be lost in a box somewhere forever if you did not take the time to post it from memory here for us.

Did you take any pictures at your meetings

Thank you
Brad
 
Thank you very much Tony for sharing with us something that would be lost in a box somewhere forever if you did not take the time to post it from memory here for us.

Did you take any pictures at your meetings

Thank you
Brad


I will try and get someone to go to the storage depot and drag some stuff out for me. I will be able to add more detail then.

One of the agreements with both was no tape recording and no photos, sadly.

Tony
 
I came across this on a forum and I thought it would be a useful addition to the thread. I translated it from the original which can be found here:

w ww.gedenktafel-infoportal.de


Do you remember these ladies at all Tony?


-----------------------

For the last three years of his life the former Reich Youth leader was cared for by the sisters Ida and Käthe Müllen who owned a hotel and a vineyard in Kröv on the Mosel. Käthe tells the following story (transcribed from a taped conversation with Jochen Klicker):

'I know what happened. Baldur was a very nice and pleasant person. If we made cheap jokes in the bar Baldur would say 'Käthe!' Oh come on I would say, we're just having a laugh. You should join in. We cheered him up and he liked that.

The last time Dr Speer came to visit he said 'he's depressed'. He was depressed. He was still deeply attached to the youth. Whenever he was asked he would say 'yes, the youth'... the youth of today is no better or worse than back then. They're just not being raised properly'. And then he told me how he flew from Vienna to Berlin and pleaded with Hitler: 'my Führer, do all you can to achieve peace. Please, do all you can. Yes, you can see the Greater German Reich on the map but America and Russia are world powers! My Führer, we'll never win the war'. Apparently the Führer said 'You and your american mother....'. Baldur was greatly affected by this. He also said 'if I had still been the Reich Youth leader when the youth was being mustered for armed service I would not have allowed one single boy to go. It would only have happened over my dead body'.

Axmann said he would visit but he never came. Apparently he was at the funeral but there were many there and we didn't know them all. Mr Kaufmann, his old adjutant, visited every four to six weeks. He's now with the state press office. He was the one who contacted the press with the news of Baldur's death. They called here and I confirmed the report. At 10 it was on the radio and spread from there around the world. We received letters from America and many from influential figures who thanked us for making his last three years comfortable.

'Let the people work'

He always came over when the news came on at half past seven. He used to sit over there and talk to the wine-growers. He wouldn't talk about the war and I told them 'don't ask about the war!' I also told them not to ask after his wife or the family. It broke his heart every time he was asked. He couldn't take it. The war didn't interest him. 'I took part in it too' he used to say. He did enjoy talking to the wine-growers though. They would ask 'so what do you think of Willy Brandt?' and he would say 'let the people work'. That was all he used to say. There was a Swedish reporter here once. Baldur didn't want to talk to him but he did. The reporter promised to send a copy of the newspaper but it never arrived. One day a letter arrived from a German in Sweden who told Baldur that the newspaper had printed a story saying that he had spoken negatively of Brandt. I was there and he said nothing of the sort. All he said was 'let the people work' - nothing else. He was always very informed and was always up to date with the latest happenings in the german parliament. He was very interested in politics but rarely expressed his opinions.

He spoke a lot about Spandau and used to say 'Hess will never be pardoned!'. 'He should have been sentenced to death'. 'It took a lot effort on the part of the allies to get the Russians to agree to a life sentence. That was his pardon!'

Baldur said that The place for Hess' ashes had been picked - the hall in Spandau. He said that the Russians didn't want to lose their base in Berlin. 'Hess is said to have proposed an alliance against the Russians to Churchill which Churchill later regretted and that's why the Russians can't forgive him'. Baldur also said that Churchill tried everything to stop the trial but there was the american chief prosecutor who wanted to make a name for himself to help him realise his aim of becoming the Attorney General. Then, during the trial, a new chief judge was chosen and the old one was replaced by an englishman. That's what Baldur said.

He said that the first ten years were the hardest. After that things were easier. The guards were nice he said. Even the Russians were nice when they weren't being watched. He said that the prisoners were treated as officers. The first ten years were hard he said but after that the food became more bearable. The prison commanders were very nice and the gentlemen often talked and ate with him. The prison personnel had a need to talk to the prisoners. He said that Hess was apparently now living in the church - in the church! Baldur knew everything.

Baldur is very popular

They say that Mrs Hess and the son were at the funeral but I'm not sure whether that's true. There were fine people there. Speer and wife were there as were a couple of american Generals one of whom cried openly. There were many from the security services too - 48 if I remember correctly. There was a very large police presence too.

It wasn't easy. We received a telephone call in the evening asking if the mortuary was being guarded. I told them that if they were to try anything that the population of Kröv would be after them including the mourners and the police and that they would be thrown over the church wall. I told them that Baldur was very popular and respected by the population of the town. They hung up.

There were some communists there but it would have been impossible for them to do anything due to the police presence. There were thousands at the funeral. There had never been that many people in the cemetery and believe me, many more would have come if things hadn't happened so quickly.
 
I have visited the grave a few times in my travels, when in the area.

There are always fresh flowers, even after all this time
 
von Schirach

Rummaging around the other day I found part of a project I started many years ago.

I was going to put all my signatures into one album, a period album that had been destroyed by a photo dealer leaving only the title page.

Anyway I thought this might be of interest.....I have others I can post if anyone wants to see them.....Axmann Donitz Speer - all clipped from letters I exchanged with said gents.

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