But this aside what are your thoughts about production of the Golden HJ
shooting Badge besides Steinhauer and Lück and Wilhelm Deumer? Do you think other makers are believable?
Wim, i think you have missed the point a bit here, none of us know anything about Gold gilding, or Gold Plating, so therefore all we can debate about is our opinions of what we think it should look like after 70 odd years.
Party badges and HJ badges were not always galvanized, (most use the term Silver washed including myself, but the correct term is Galvanized) so it would depend on the maker, and the time frame he needed to produce badges in, the same would theoretically go for all items, including items that were "supposed" to be fire gilded, that is why i said we need to find out what a freshly Fire gilded piece compared to a freshly gold plated piece would have looked like, because it is more than possible that makers cut corners and got some items gold plated instead of gilded, for whatever reasons, time, money, maybe the area was bombed out and gilding was no longer an option as was the case from 1941 onwards in many parts of Germany, so what i am getting at, is that we really need to know all we can about the actual process first, before we discuss it, otherwise we are running around in circles.
Go back to the start, and do the job properly, learn about the process, then when we understand it, ONLY THEN can we start to rule certain "things" out, and only then can we really start to compare, backed up with real, hands on knowledge!
I have never owned a Gold Hj shooter, and i don't believe i have even held on in my hands either, it`s not something that has ever interested me to be honest, so i wouldn't know what to say. All i can do is take Party badge knowledge relating to the time period, and manufacturing levels, combine it with my research in that department, and shoot from the hip on obvious oddities / abnormalities that stick out to me like a sore thumb, regarding either makers marks, construction, overall feeling you get for small enamel badges after handling them for so long..and the rest. But if going on the post that says there were indeed over 2000 made, when Reference books say only 850 were made/awarded, it is crystal clear that in depth research has not been done.
Wim, i wont quote the posters name, but on another forum, recently you have a chat with a guy about the Stahlhof, which he though was the Trademark for Steinhauer and Lück, what he posted sums up everything i have always been saying..
From an other forum said:
I have been collecting Stahlhelm Commemorative Badges for many years (only missing the ultra-rare 1918) and have always assumed them to have been made by Steinhauer.
See Wim, this is your Average collector, Collecting for soooooo many years, an Expert in this and that, but does not bother to do any homework, does not take the slightest bit of interest in the maker, the History behind the item and so on...... does not seek out the facts and is happy to collect for the sake of collecting.
Maybe it is just me, and maybe i am just too passionate about these items and about History, but did i not just prove it with the
Otto Hoffmann post? a small amount of research can sink 1000 opinions and debates of those who just rely on skimming info from the web, or don't do any research at all. This is why i am certain, that once we understand the actual Gold gilding process more, it will enable us to come to conclusions based on Facts, and not what you, me, or anyone else thinks about Photos and what we think looks correct.