HJ sharpshooter (Scharfschütze) badge RZM M1/14

it is fairly disheartening to realize that more than half of what we collect today could be fake.
Hi Battler, Its not meant as an across-the-border statement, meaning that we are all fools and half of each collection is reproduction, but more that there are still plenty of items being sold today, and accepted by the collector as being Genuine, when they in fact cant be, and in some cases where they are just plain fantasy. You only have to log in to any OK-ish forum, and read every week threads pertaining to So-Called big-wig and trusted dealers/Sellers, showing a fake that they have somehow missed and are selling as Genuine.
I am talking about the Old boys that were peddling TR items before the days of the internet. So if they, with their 50 odd years of Expertise, are still doing it now in 2011, (for whatever reason, on purpose, or just a honest mistake) so what have they been selling since 1960 then? what have they built their reputation up on? ALL, 100% Honest and Genuine items? many collectors trust these Dealers blind, and have so filled their collections since they started with Fantasy and Fake items.
Now lets not forget that many of these older Dealers turned into Militaria-Reference book Authors over the years, and have filled their Catalogs and reference books with fakes and Repros, (for whatever reason, on purpose to make money with stockpiles of cr4p they bought in the 70`s or maybe just an honest mistake)This has happened since the First TR reference book was written, and is still going on today. (Hüskens 2010 Catalog has more than it`s fare of Fantasy and fake items in to mention but one book)

My take on this (the comment that half of the collections are fake) is simple. Collectors-Greed, plain and simple. It has always been that way, that the collector, who pretends to have no affiliations with National Socialism, and who pretends to be a "historian" firstly, and who says that he collects these items out of an interest in the TR period, is talking through his Bum hole, and in fact knows very little about History at all, and does not want to either.

The internet has excelled this Greedy collector, and allowed the Repro market to flourish because there is Profit to be made, there is no need to leave your Chair anymore and meet any other collectors fact to face, you can buy stuff from one site, or Auction platform, do a quick Google-search, become an Expert, (or at least portray that image of yourself) and then resell it and make money. These Experts spread the filth of misinterpreted information and assumption by drumming it into the heads of others that they Really know their stuff, they can post on Forums, give thumbs up, compare images and talk you to death, Without even understanding the fundamentals, the basics..... in Short, Not bothering to actually research anything to the fullest extent, because very few actually care about the history behind the item, they care what others on Forums tell them, they care what is written in an outdated reference book that was written by someone else who also did not give a monkeys, and who copied his Information from a like-minded filth-spreader.

We have talked about this over the years since the internet Forums started, and right up until today, i can show you Good, scare items being Slagged off by so called Big Shots, being given the thumbs down for all kinds of stupid reasons that reveal straight away, that the poster is, in fact, not an Expert, but someone who also knows little about History, and more about how to Compare images.

There was a post on WAF a short time ago, about this Forum, and how "small" it was compared to them... well i ask, what would you prefer, a small community of like-minded collectors posting useful information and discussions, or 25,000 Monkeys all screaming at once because there aint enough bananas to go around, and half of the bananas have been trampled because most of the Monkeys thought they were Oranges?

Its Forums like this one, that are the Only way forward, and will, in time help to organize Information and share it to those who are actually looking for it, and who can accept that after reading words of wisdom, that a few of their items must be bad. The collector that specializes in one area, and tries to learn as much about that as possible, is the one who is less likely to get burned in time.
 
There was a post on WAF a short time ago, about this Forum, and how "small" it was compared to them... well i ask, what would you prefer, a small community of like-minded collectors posting useful information and discussions, or 25,000 Monkeys all screaming at once because there aint enough bananas to go around, and half of the bananas have been trampled because most of the Monkeys thought they were Oranges?

Its Forums like this one, that are the Only way forward, and will, in time help to organize Information and share it to those who are actually looking for it, and who can accept that after reading words of wisdom, that a few of their items must be bad. The collector that specializes in one area, and tries to learn as much about that as possible, is the one who is less likely to get burned in time.

Well, the example that you posted is more than important and, I believe, accurate. Not long ago, a colleague posted in WAF a lovely “Division Azul Medal” (Spanish version). I swear to God that the orden was a gut one. As you can imagine, he received so many thumbs down, with no reason other than… “it is fake” or “crap”. But when a couple of experts in this Field (Division Azul) explained the orden, characteristics, and so on, it was more than clear that it was a good one. But, of course, people, who said it was a fake, never turn back and apologised.

Now, talking about the thread. What we have here is providing so much information and tips. It may deserves a nice sticky.

In my case, it helps me to understand that we may go back to the beginning to understand about the pieces. I have started to translate into Spanish the “Mitteilungsblatt der RZM”. Excellent information and, of course, found so many interesting things. Ok, sometimes it is a bit complicated and you need time (und Lust), but many things found.

Anyway, thanks all for your inputs.

Regards

Antonio
 
There was a post on WAF a short time ago, about this Forum, and how "small" it was compared to them... well i ask, what would you prefer, a small community of like-minded collectors posting useful information and discussions, or 25,000 Monkeys all screaming at once because there aint enough bananas to go around, and half of the bananas have been trampled because most of the Monkeys thought they were Oranges?

Its Forums like this one, that are the Only way forward, and will, in time help to organize Information and share it to those who are actually looking for it, and who can accept that after reading words of wisdom, that a few of their items must be bad. The collector that specializes in one area, and tries to learn as much about that as possible, is the one who is less likely to get burned in time.

Totally agree Jo. Concentration is the way to go in my opinion. I think it promotes an atmosphere in which people think about the impact of their words and encourages them to qualify their statements. I think we have a great atmosphere here where people genuinely want to assist each other and learn and that can only be good for the future of HJ collecting.
 
But, of course, people, who said it was a fake, never turn back and apologised.
This is quite an important statement, and very true. On a few of the older Sticky threads on the larger Forums you can observe this. They work both constructive and destructive, many of the younger collectors have substituted actual Knowledge found in research and period literature with the comments of certain Forum "names". This can be read over & over, "If xxx or yyy says`s its Good then i can only agree, thanks for zzz`s comments, he really is the expert when it comes to these.."
Which i guess is OK, as long as the Forum "name" is willing to back up what he is saying with facts, period information and History first, before relying solely on comparing a few pictures from friends posts/collections. And as you posted, when it is proven that they are wrong, they just forget the thread and wont bother answering.
Maybe they don't want to tarnish their Forum-reputation, or realize that they have spoken cr4p and cant bring any *meat* to the discussion. In any case, these kind of threads will be around for a long time, infecting other, lazy collectors who rely solely on the Forums. (There are plenty of them, posting auction links, sales links asking if others think a certain item is good before they commit"

If you need to ask the opinions of Forum people you have never met, in order to make a decision whether or not to buy a piece, then you are in the wrong hobby.

You know, every collector first started collecting before he thoroughly researched, me included. But after a while, it soon becomes clear that it will be very beatifically to actually learn History first and then collect accordingly, so much more will become clear, and of course interesting. The history part is the biggest part for me. After that, things just seem to fall into place.
 
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