Matthias Oechsler and the HJ shooting awards

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Hi Everyone,


When looking at various reverses of M1/14 mm shooting awards I become more and more confused of which Matthias Oechsler are original and which are not. Besides the typical burning marks of the wrong soldering technique are there any differences in the lettering of the M1/14 code or the placing of the RZM logo? After looking at Jo's range of original M1/14 party pins, I have the impression that the mm on the shooting awards differs a lot in style, no?

I must admit that at the moment I don't feel comfortable with any M1/14 mm shooter badge. Or am I too sceptical?


Looking forward to opinions

Kind regards, Wim
 
Have you noticed differences between the MM among the shooting badges Wim? What I mean is: are the MM on the badges all the same or have you seen some with the same MM as the M1/14 party badge?
 
Hi Garry,

No, I don't. What I would like to see on an original is a reverse ageing like on a worn party pin; traces of silver, the brown red color of Tombak -/- Buntmetall etc... While browsing on the the forums the most convincing example that I have seen is the one from Stu over here. But besides that I see many badges with weird reverses.
I think -Jo wil correct me if I'm wrong- original badges were silvered after the pin plate was sodered on, so every trace costed by the soldering is not visible. The fakes seems to have received no reverse finish at all and burning traces are visible all over it. Some also have sunken enamel on the swastika arms.

I have such a fake sharpshooter with typical burning marks. The mm is applied exactly like on the example that I give the benifit of being good. But in that case the fakers did a scary good job. So I wondered if any of you could give comments on the following questions:

A. Matthias Oechsler never made any original shooting awards?
B. Matthias Oeschler made shooting awards but with tiny differences in the mm compared to the mm on the fakes?
C. The fakers made a 100 % perfect copy of the placing an measurements of the MM marks and only failed in their soldering techniques?

I Admit it is quite complicated to explain but I'm worried about a few things. We know almost for certain that the weird soldering technique -like mentioned by Jo- is an indication of a fake. Proof of that is the DJ shooting award which was maked with M1/66, a maker who lost his RZM liscense before the time of the introduction of the award. The same wrong soldering technique is found on M1/14 badges with and without the wreath. And all the M1/14 badges that I am aware of have the same placing of the mm and rzm logo. So there is a chance that they are all wrong... or not...


Regards, Wim
 
For what I am reading, then it is NOT recommended to by one M1/14? Right?

Regards

Antonio
 
Hi Wim, i like the way you think :)
There is no "perfect" fake. With badge forensics, you will have your answer, so for a small investment of €200-400.- you could have a conclusive and 100% certain way of knowing without having to worry about any opinion, story or outside influence - usually coming from those who only want to hear what they want to, because they own similar pieces.
The heat mark, (as an old thread shows here) is also not observed on Period "repaired" badges either, so its not just the modern solder, and way it was done, but also has to do with a reaction with the modern materials used, as well as how it was finished.
With other badges and awards that were soldered with Schlaglot, (meaning that you needed to heat up both parts to red hot!!! - and not just heat a bit of solder for 2 seconds) these items were treated afterwards, especially to get rig of the Heat marks.. this is specifically mentioned in period guides of how badges and awards were made.

This heat mark thingy, i would guess it is indicative of one manufacturer who used a specif way, and materials- in their fakes... did you ever see this heat mark on a good badge yet? nope, and you will not either, unless it was fixed a few years ago by someone who melted the pin off using a torch. and then affixed another.

I cant answer you question IF all M1/14 shooters are bad, but i know, the more we take a closer look at certain things, the more crap we will find. We all just accepted or went with certain items, when in reality, many of the Good items now, were indeed fantasy, or only from late 1960!
 
Hi Jo, thanks for your opinion.

@ Antonio: Yes, at this moment I would rather recommend not to buy M1/14 shooting awards.

It deserve at least much more research. A few big close -up pictures of the mm, placing of the mm, etc... of these paticular awards would be great. But I guess it lays a bit sensitive because many of us own such a M1/14 badge. But I can asure you all that have the same problem with a silver grade example that I payed hard earned money for and that is nothing more then a fake. With very smooth quality enamel but still a fake... Putting the head in the sand is no good solution here.
 
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