Bann 437 Sieger Fähnlein 1938 badge for review

Joe B

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Bann 437 Sieger Fähnlein 1938

I saw this badge on Manions a few weeks ago . What do you think ?Good or Bad ?

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Can you post photos of the front and backsides of yours ?
 
I have seen a few of these with holes in the wings for sewing on a tunic . I am curios if this was a standard modification or did these badges come with prongs or both ?
 
I made this collage showing two boys from different units but both with this pattern badge and both sewn through the holes and over the left pocket. Of course, we can't see the writing on the badge but it is clearly the same design. Do these all have splints? If they do that would explain why these boys and a boy on a photo in my collection all have them sewn on. The splints beg the question of, well, why splints?? Why not a pin? Very odd. I hope that we'll be able to find out more on these.

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I posted a link back to here from the WAF thread in case anyone turns up that thread on a search at some point. There is talk over there about an Angolia reference saying that these were originally attached to a ribbon. Could someone have a look through their copy and perhaps post the info here please?
 
Hi Garry, it pretty much says only that they were attached to a ribbon. Here's verbatim what the text says:

"Bann 434 Victors badge, 1939, stamped tin, sew on style. Usually this badge has a ribbon specifying the competition. Also observed Bann 366 Sieger Fahnlien 1941 and Sieger Gefolgschaft 1943/44. Not a true day badge."

There is only a small photo of the badge and the descriptor above. Typically Angolia cites no reference for this information and in the photo of the badge does it not have a ribbon attached.

Edit: It is laughable that Snyder describes this as an "HJ Honor Guard" badge.
 
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Between BANN and SIEGER there was nothing included onto the original working die obverse, an indication that what they were making would later have individual numbers added into this space. (Best observed from the reverse) Very nice badge, and one of the very few times that you actually see this on the actual obverse of a badge.. There must be plenty of different numbers, a collectible item(s) on it`s own. Yes, people with no background knowledge as well as no knowledge of the construction process will speculate. Why trumpet? why not BDM tampon box cover? tut tut. I know that i had two (different) of these long ago, maybe i still do? will try and look next week if i find time.
 
i TAKE IT THESE BADGES WHERE ISSUED OVER SEVERAL YEARS AT LEAST TWO ISSUES CAN ANYONE ELABORATE ON THIS A BIT MORE AS i JUST FOUND ONE DATED 1944/45:canada1
 
Here is a photo from my colection , I cant tell if it is sewn on or has prongs . Edit that , I blew up this photo 400% in it looks to be sewn on .

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Nice photo Joe :thumb:

What I find interesting is that these items do not, of course, appear to have been made for wear on the uniform. They don't have pins and indeed, the badge Joe shows in post #1 has splints so I wonder whether this is the clue to their original purpose? Without the appropriate fastening mechanism, the wearer is left only with one option and that is to do what the boys on the photos did; drill three holes and sew the badge on. Why though? Why not just have a pin? The only possible answer for me is that the badge was originally attached to something else.

We have the statement from Angolia that what we see on the shirts of these boys was originally attached to a ribbon. The inference is that the eagle was attached to a ribbon and that the ribbon had the pin with which to attach the badge to the uniform. However, a ribbon on a HJ/DJ competition badge? Doesn't really sound very macho does it? Someone ordered these badges in advance and I just can't see him picking out badges with ribbons rather than a more appropriate design. There must be a more logical solution to the question of why these boys are wearing a badge on their uniforms that was clearly not designed to go there. It's too big, it has no pin and has been defaced in order to attach it to the uniform.
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I don't like the ribbon idea so I'm thinking about other possibilities like.... presentation folders or certificates. Could these badges originally have been emblems attached to winners' certificates like this oakleaf (right) or like the eagle (left)? I don't know how these items were attached but splints seems like a logical way of doing it and this is something these Sieger badges seem also to have in some cases. To get them onto a shirt all that would need to be done is to flatten the splints (or remove them altogether) and then drill the three holes. Yes, only a theory of course but it does make more sense to me than the idea that drilling three holes and then sewing the badge onto a uniform was better than a pin...



What do you see on the reverse side of your badges Tomas? For example, do those without the holes have splints?
 

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Another one in wear , taken from ebay before the auction closed .

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