Cased HJ sports award

Garry

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I'll be putting this and another up for sale but I wanted to see what the current general opinion of these is. There has been general discussion in the past on this type of table medal. Some like them and some don't but I've never seen evidence offered one way or the other so I'd be interested in your opinions.

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Gary ive had a couple in the past, im of the opinion that some are real TR items but ive seen some turn up that i just cannot belive were TR manufacture pieces, ive even seen them on the market now with painted diamonds. A few years back Klaus Butchek had a huge sports grouping for sale and i belive there were a few of these in with the lot with various other plaques i managed to have a look at some of the awards before the group was broken up , to me it all looked original TR period , but i do belive that this plaque will cause some debate in the future, Regards Pete.
p.s. most ive seen have been awarded to austrians!!!
 
Thanks Pete. Yes, I remember the Butschek grouping well. I kept a few pics of it but unfortunately got no answer from him when I asked for a couple of reverse shots. They really would have helped. How does the one I showed look to you?
 
Gary yours looks like the ones i had, can all these have diffrent legends on the back if they are post war? I must admit i did get a bit frightened at one point when i saw a lot of these turn up, its going to have to be a matter of faith i belive., im inclined to belive that most are TR period but thats my humble opinion :001_unsure:. Pete.
 
Thanks again Pete. Back into the box they go then :) The only thing which could be ascertained really is whether games were held in that year, in that city and in that event. Even if that can be established it still doesn't mean much because a faker could easily do the same.
 
looks like mine ive allways liked them and seeing them in the grouping at butcheks helped me confim that they where period awards
 
The Butschek set belonged to a swimmer called Frank Zigon who as far as I can tell is still alive. I had more but I can only seem to find one pic from the Butschek sale which I've added below. There are quite a few pictures of Zigon himself at the link here: Geschichte

The only thing which is stopping me offering my two for sale with a clear conscience is that I've yet to see a known fake. Mine compare very well with the example shown from the Butschek sale but I'd love to see a fake to see how they stack up.

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I never got around to putting them up for sale actually Ewan. Still have them at home
 
No names Ewan. Just the year, place and sporting discipline. Certainly on those I've seen anyway. That's why I was keen to see the reverse of the Frank Zigon collection actually. It would have been nice to see what he had on his and whether the font and wording was the same as the ones we see around. .
 
I was told that these awards were made by Souval and the orginal war time ones come in a similar case to the one in the photographs however the orginal cases are all well worn, like the Ek1 cases. The smell of the case is differant as well, it smells of moth balls. Souval started to produce this award again a few years ago and every case I have seen is stone mint and they smell new. I am afraid for me the majority offered for sale are modern pressings, as far as I know the HJ collection offered by Klaus ended up in England, I got a very small part of it ( one item ) I will try to find out the dealers name and ask him about what was on the back of the plaques. I know him to talk to but not his name so will make some enquirys.

steiner
 
Thanks for the info Steiner. Yes, I also tried to obtain pictures of the reverse when the dealer had the Zigon set up for sale but never got an answer. I'd love to see some definitive research into these so that collectors have the information needed to see the fakes. I have yet to come across a thread where these items are discussed in depth with examples from both sides of the spectrum. Hopefully we can do that here.

When I bought mine I was aware of the feelings on them but as there was no evidence other than the Zigon set I took a chance. That Souval began to reproduce them a few years back is (very unsettling) news to me and I hope to learn more on that as this thread develops. I've stopped the sale of my item of course.
 
...I am afraid for me the majority offered for sale are modern pressings, as far as I know the HJ collection offered by Klaus ended up in England, I got a very small part of it ( one item ) I will try to find out the dealers name and ask him about what was on the back of the plaques. I know him to talk to but not his name so will make some enquirys.

steiner

Did you ever get anywhere with that dealer at all Steiner?
 
Hi Garry,

seen your post and in response sending you some images of a similar table badge on sell on a site. This way you can compare the writing on the backside. I'm not familiar with those type of badges, so I'm not gone give any comments on them.

Please,

Hope this helps and or sort out a few things??????

Wizardelf
:belgium

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Thanks for that W :thumb:. That one looks to be the same type as mine with the same, new-looking, case. I'm still not convinced by my badges and I'm hoping that Steiner was able to get more pictures of the Zigon grouping.
 
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