Rudolf Souval and Siedler Interviews

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Last night, in This thread, (post 7) i mentioned the 1991 Austria Newspaper article about Souval. You will only Benefit from reading it, and 99% of you have not seen it, and not read it, i have translated it into English for those who cant read German. For those of you who would like a Huge scan of it, in German, PM me with your email addy. (the pic below may be big enough for German readers to read, but if not, no worries, just PM me)

I was fortunate enough, to have Ray Cowdery send me the original articles that he used for his 1993 book, Nazi Militaria, Real or Fake for use in my own project. Ray showed the article on page 53, but only in small A5 form, and impossible for anyone to actually read. Article translation follows below:

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Thankyou for posting .
I have known about the Rudolf Souval reproductions for a while now .:sad::angry::crying::frusty:
 
Thankyou for posting .
I have known about the Rudolf Souval reproductions for a while now .
:yo: i don't think that any collector wants to really think about the sheer scale of things. After all, we are talking about 1 single maker in Austria here, who by his own words exported 50,000 Awards per year during the sixties, as he said, but was still making them when this interview took place in the 90`s. (What was he doing between 1946 and 1960 then? getting ready to fake items :001_smile: he would have been churning out items long before the last gun fell silent i bet) Then we have makers like Steinhauer & Lück in Germany, and all the rest of the original makers who were doing what they could to get by.. we are talking about millions upon millions of items here. Somehow, most of these items have vanished, and what we recognize as a copy today, most likely comes from Eastern Europe, or was made not too long ago.
To my knowledge, the first Book published warning collectors of the mass of fakes, and the "Hoards" turning up in Attics was in the 60`s (Peter Stahl)

Yes, the Article is an eye opener, especially the last few lines. Deceit from start to finish. Lots of the people who stocked up on hoards of fakes back in the 60-70 period, are now running the Hobby :sad::sad:
 
Scary... Are current collectors of these items able to tell the difference Jo? I mean, if Siedler and Souval were using the original dies there would be no apparent difference between an original made in 1941 and an original made in 1991 so how do collectors deal with that?
 
Scary... Are current collectors of these items able to tell the difference Jo? I mean, if Siedler and Souval were using the original dies there would be no apparent difference between an original made in 1941 and an original made in 1991 so how do collectors deal with that?
Garry, no idea m8. With things like the Iron Cross and War awards, i personally don't see how one could say for certain that the item was made in 1941 or 1951, then again, i have no idea about such items. (Also, we should distinguish between Items made post war In Germany using original pins, original materials, original dies and in most cases, the original workforce, as opposed to those made in the USA, China, Eastern Europe, the UK etc etc as i am sure there will be a big difference in Quality and probably tell tales signs for the trained eye) What rests my mind at ease, is that i have yet to find any Early post war advertisements offering Small badges for the US or UK market. All my research points to the late 60`s and early 70`s when they first started to reproduce them. But, i am not naive either, and do realize that makers like Souval, who was faking Enameled items such as the Mothers cross since the end of the war, could also have been making other small badges.After all, they were making Enameled items before Hitler and right through until today, so it makes me smile when i read, in modern day reference works that .."It is easy to tell post war enameled souval apart from Hitler era" Souval was, and still is, enameling the Highest Orders and awards for the Austrian Government.

All i can say, with reference to the small badges, is that Knowing History helps a tremendous deal too when funny items appear. Most of the Small badge Reproductions can be weeded out using a combination of History, Common sense, Experience and that "feeling" that you get once you have handled 100,000 of the same item. But 100% Sure? no, i don't think we can ever be 100% sure.

Now that's just Small badges i am talking about as that's always been my main focus, How the others do it with everything from SS cuff titles through Uniforms onto the Knights Cross`i cant say.... i guess most are just relying on a quick Picture comparison through the net, and by looking at what is "accepted"......

Does it matter? i guess not, as long as the collector is happy with his money spent.
 
...Does it matter? i guess not, as long as the collector is happy with his money spent.

Very interesting and at the end of the day the part of your post which I have quoted seems to be the determining factor, in my opinion, too much of the time. Yes, one either believes or one does not but sometimes it worries me that people go for the former option despite the fact that the available evidence is telling a different story.
 
it worries me that people go for the former option despite the fact that the available evidence is telling a different story.
Garry, anyone who really wants their Fake items to be real, and reassure themselves that they bought a good piece, well they will always find a reason to justify the bad buy to themselves instead of accepting the facts, even if it is printed in period black and white ink and laid out before them. The "Well maybe this...and maybe that" argument will be used..

It`s not worth arguing with people over though, those who choose to ignore History and go on whatever other reasons they find are going down a wrong path anyway, and in time, will get taken for a Muppet. Especially when they try and sell their collection.
 
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