Did the Reichsberufswettkampf Kreissieger pay for their badges?

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Hi everyone,


I got a small lot of documents about the RBWK. It goes mainly about correspondence between a participant (Kreissieger) and the local RBWK organization. One letter caught my eye dated on 21/04/1939.

It stated:


(...) Für die Kreissieger u. siegerinnen ist einschönes (sic) Abzeichen hergestellt worden. Zum Preise von 2.-RM können Sie das bei uns bestellen. Der betrag ist an die DAF-Verwaltungsdienstelle 14, Siegen, Siegstr. 10, zu zahlen oder zu überweisen. (...)

I send a copy of the letter to Garry so he can post it and maybe explain it in English :001_smile:
 
Hi Wim,

As I mentioned in correspondence, Hitler Youth members had to pay for other badges (shooting, achievement, membership etc) so viewed in that light it seems likely that winners at the Kreis level at least did indeed have to pay for their winner's badge. It's a really useful document because I had I assumed that the Kreis-, Gau- and Reichssieger badges would have been part of the presentation package (badge and certificates) that the winners received. I will dig through my stuff because there is of course the possibility that a different badge altogether is meant by the letter although its wording makes that unlikely.

Here's the letter that Wim sent to me:

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I'll check the rest of the correspondence in the document lot to see if there is more but I doubt that. Some of the letters during the war years indicate how difficult it became for both the organization of the RBWK and the former participants to get in contact etc.. because everybody was on the front.


Regards, Wim
 
Good stuff :thumb:. It seems in keeping with the NSDAP, invent an event, and then get people to buy the badge. The GPB as well as replacement Urkunde had to be purchased, so why would it be different elsewhere?.
 
I wonder if it also was the case on Reichslevel. I can understand the gouvernment would not like to pay 40.000 Kreissieger badges but in the case of the Reichssiegers we talk about a few hundreds.

@Jo: Did you have to pay also for the initional GPB you got as a member below the 100.000 or only for the extra purchased pieces?

Regards, Wim
 
I wonder if it also was the case on Reichslevel. I can understand the gouvernment would not like to pay 40.000 Kreissieger badges but in the case of the Reichssiegers we talk about a few hundreds.

@Jo: Did you have to pay also for the initional GPB you got as a member below the 100.000 or only for the extra purchased pieces?

Regards, Wim
Wim, thats something myself and Jay were talking about a few months ago here.↓↓ Plenty of documents shown, and conclusions seen/reached.
http://www.parteiabzeichen.ch/index...bzeichen-forum/87-30mm-deschler-gpb?start=225

The initial GPB Besitzurkunde was free, i believe every Urkunde was free, no matter what.. (after all, you cant just present a guy with a piece of paper and then expect him to pay for it.) But ALL GPBs had to be paid for by the recipient, regardless if if was the first set or the tenth set.. If you lost your original Urkunde, then the replacement Urkunde you had to buy for RM1.- (Not including the special Honorary/Presentation GPBs - that is still unknown at present)
 
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Wim, to the HJ, they could sell "anything" anyway. If you read the UMs, you`ll find plenty of mention of HJ lads and badges/awards, and how fascinated they were by them. Even many occurrences of HJ members trying to buy awards/medals from retailers that they were not allowed to have. Many repeat mentions of this and how vital it was for sellers to make sure the buyer had the necessary Urkunde(n) and was allowed to buy said piece. In one UM issue (i forget which) there is a picture of HJ lads peering through a shop window, and a following article about it/them, and how they loved "awards and badges".
 
Wim, to the HJ, they could sell "anything" anyway. If you read the UMs, you`ll find plenty of mention of HJ lads and badges/awards, and how fascinated they were by them. Even many occurrences of HJ members trying to buy awards/medals from retailers that they were not allowed to have. Many repeat mentions of this and how vital it was for sellers to make sure the buyer had the necessary Urkunde(n) and was allowed to buy said piece. In one UM issue (i forget which) there is a picture of HJ lads peering through a shop window, and a following article about it/them, and how they loved "awards and badges".

Typical German I guess. Even today their souvenir shops are offering tons of membership pins etc...
 
Hello,

Concerning the letter and my experience, it is possible, that the winners have to pay for the badges. In 1989 I got the international glider badge in silver. It was 925 Sterling silver and I had to pay for the badge.

Regards Markus
 
The sources I have here only ever talk about the certificates at each level. There was a competition to design these and also one for the posters that publicised each of the RBWK so I am thinking that the Kreissieger and Gausieger badges were paid for by the winners. The Reichssieger must have received the badge for free because there are photographs of presentation ceremonies that clearly show a pile of badges (in their boxes) next to the folders containing the Reichssieger certificates. The announcement of the Reichssieger took place only 24 hours after the conclusion of testing so clearly there would have been no time to gather in money etc. In any case this would have ruined the surprise somewhat :) I suppose that it's possible that winners were asked to pay for the badge after the event but as Jo says, who would present a winner with a badge and then subsequently present him/her with a bill?

Due to the late stage of the war and the difficulties that this imposed on administration and movement of personnel for the 1944 Kriegsberufswettkampf (and the cheap construction method of the badges) I think it very likely that Gau- and Reichssieger in 1944 got their badges for free.
 
Yes just thinking about this again with regards the GPB, and what i didn't mention were the Presentation GPBs that Hitler gave to people who would not have qualified for them down the normal road (membership unbroken and under 100 000). I havnt seen any documents for these yet, (and doubt i will) but i think it is also safe to assume that the presentation GPBs were paid for by the State, and the recipient was not required to pay,
I cant see that you could be presented with an actual badge, then later be asked to pay for it.
 
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