Your assessment of this Marine-HJ cap with "Segelschulschiff Horst Wessel" tally?

[GEROME]

Hello, I would like your opinion of this Marine-HJ cap. Thanks


bonjour je voudrais votre avis sur ce bouchon Marine-HJ

merci

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[operaman]

The Horst Wessel

I have enclosed some post cards in my collection of the ship that the young man whose hat you have served on. The color card is a field post and I have included a summary of the history of the ship

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[operaman]

Horst Wessel 2

I tried to download a short history of the Horst.It was captured after the war and sent to the U.S and was refitted for the use of the U.s. Coast Guard ship renamed the USS Eagle,it is in service today in fact it is on tour in Europe as we speak.Goggle the name and you can read all about her.

 

[debertex]

Hello,

The cap is ok, but the tally is not the right one.

The boys who were allowed to spend a few days, as guests, on war ships and those who were pupils on the school ships of the Kriegsmarine were the tally of the ship with white writing on a blue ribbon (like the cap tallys of the Marine-HJ). The cap tallys with yellow writing on black ribbon are those of the Kriegsmarine.

Best regards

 

[Joe B]

Agreed , cap tally is not HJ .

 

[operaman]

HJ Cap

I was under the impression that this is cadet cap,The Horst was not a war ship as such it was a training vessel,so are you saying the cap is a fake?

 

[Joe B]

No ...The cap is not fake , however ; the cap band ( tally) has been replaced with a standard Kreigsmarine version .

 

[GEROME]

merci pour les information donc pour vous la bande n'est pas la bonne?
quel est le prix pour un tel plafond?

 

[Marine HJ]

MHJ cap

Hello,

The cap is ok, but the tally is not the right one.

The boys who were allowed to spend a few days, as guests, on war ships and those who were pupils on the school ships of the Kriegsmarine were the tally of the ship with white writing on a blue ribbon (like the cap tallys of the Marine-HJ). The cap tallys with yellow writing on black ribbon are those of the Kriegsmarine.

Best regards

Hi Gerome,

that's correct what Fernand wrote. The cap is good but the cap ribbon is not. Unfortunately it is not even an original Kriegsmarine tally but an ugly fake from the 70's, when standard Kriegsmarine tallies were reproduced for veteran's meetings. In the 70's, tallies were worth virtually absolutely nothing, so they were certainly no re-produced for commercial purposes.
Now some of you will ask how I can make a conclusion that quick that the tally is fake: you can recognize that on the 's' in 'schiff': the s should be a so called 'long' s how it was f.e. used on the triangle 'Dusseldorf'.

There is o n l y the Horst Wessel tally, which is an official blue/white tally of a ship of the Kriegsmarine - and this was from her time when she was used as Reichsseesportschule 5 in Stralsund! The other known blue/white tallies of ships of the Kriegsmarine have nothing to do at all with the MHJ!

Is the blue cover sewn onto the hat?

The value of this cap with original blue/white tally is about 400-500 Euro, very much depending from the tally and the combined condition.

Rgds

Daniel

 

[debertex]

Here (at WEITZE's shop) you could have one for 350 EUR !

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[debertex]

...There is o n l y the Horst Wessel tally, which is an official blue/white tally of a ship of the Kriegsmarine - and this was from her time when she was used as Reichsseesportschule 5 in Stralsund! The other known blue/white tallies of ships of the Kriegsmarine have nothing to do at all with the MHJ!

Rgds

Daniel

Hello Daniel,

What is, in this case, the purpose of the other 'Marine-HJ' tallys with names of Kriegsmarine ships ?

Best regard

 

[Marine HJ]

tallies

Fernand,

I think you are reflecting f.e. on the Panzerschiff Admiral Scheer tally, which is currently for sale at Weitze's website. When you look very closely or have such tally in hand it is actually not white but silver grey.
They are so called "sweetheart ribbons" and were available in different colours in the ship's canteens. I have several of them and they were common in various colours in nearly all Navy's on the world.
The blue colour of the KM souvenir ribbons is not the same (it is darker) and the white is grey-silver - for the reason not to mix them up with MHJ.

The general believe that these tallies were worn by MHJ boys which were on board for a visit is not true. Also: no photograph of such ribbon in wear by any person (Civilian or sailor) is existant ... because they have nothing to do with military and/or (M)HJ.
I would think a MHJ boy, who was "granted" with a tally of a battle- or Panzerschiff would have run to the next photostudio and to make a portrait for the proud mother ... or a quick snapshot on board at least.

If you have other information, please let me know.

Kind regards

Daniel

 

[GEROME]

merci beaucoup les gars pour votre aide

 

[u869ss]

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here is a complete cap

 

[operaman]

Nice cap 869,Nice display!

 

[GEROME]

ok je vois bien merci 869

 

[GEROME]

voici d'autres photos

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[Marine HJ]

cap tally

voici d'autres photos

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Well, as I already mentioned: the cap tally is fake. Fernand has shown where to get an original Horst Wessel from, which belongs in this cap.

Daniel