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  1. #1

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    BDM armband - Kriegseinsatz Kassel 26

    Hi there,new here so be gentle guys.
    now there has been great debate about pinted armbands.The facts have shown that they were about.now all that said this printed model i think is very wrong.
    the stiching looks nice.The thing that has thrown up a red flag to me is the area numbers.
    With this being warhelp or collecting for that it will be 39 and on but the area number i have been told does not match up.
    can we shine a bit of light here and i can move away from this band.
    A big thanks shoot me down ,rip me to pieces i want to lean.many thanks guys.

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    Last edited by Jo Rivett; 18th August 2012 at 11:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by petesav View Post
    now there has been great debate about pinted armbands.The facts have shown that they were about.
    That thread was about printed Official armbands, i:e: the HJ armband - and not just printed armbands per say. "Printed" were surely "about" as we know from the Volkssturm armbands and many others. Therefore both woven and printed ran parallel, surely from day 1 to the last day.
    Official (printed) armbands were expressly forbidden by the RZM in 1935, with no mention that Printed armbands per say were now forbidden, just the printed official ones , and in particular the printed HJ armband.
    I cant help you with this one, sorry. Its certainly not an official armband though, so the fact that its printed has Little to do with the actual discussion you mention. But i do understand why you are thinking that it does.

  3. #3

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    I dont like this armband , and here is why ... Why would a BDM girl wear an armband that has a Gebiet city and bann number when she allready wears a Gebiet triangle on her blouse and jacket ?
    Also . the armband says "KASSEL 26" Kassel is in the Gebiet of West Kurhessen and it has the Bann number of 83 . Bann 26 is from the city of Magdeburg in the Gebiet of Mitte/Mittelelbe .

    I have seen a hand embroidered sleeveband that said "BDM Kreigseinsatz" before but nothing like this one pictured . In my opinions this is a fake . More opinions are welcome .

  4. #4
    I would have said that the addition of a Town / number would make it more "acceptable" with collectors without knowledge of the numbers using them to automatically say its good, - BUT, when you see the mass of other fake armbands in post war fakers catalogs that also have other numbers and strange stuff on, then it becomes obvious that forgers did this on purpose. Also badges with fantasy unit numbers and names etc.... i am sure i have seen these before though? will have to think about that.
    Printed cloth like this was forbidden anyway for use with the HJ armbands, so i am wondering how come there was still printed HJ cloth about after 1939? I know its not an official armband - just wondering why though?

  5. #5

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    Thanks chaps the whole armband thing can get quite confussing at times.The main problem i had was the area numbers.This was already brought to my attention that they were miss matched.
    I think you hit the nail on the head here and confirmed my worries,its a wrong en.
    Just for my future reference is there a list of all the area names and numbers.Thanks again BR Pete

  6. #6
    Pete,
    Since you have opted for full membership here there is a list posted on the forum from Garry that contains the Bann numbers, names, and area triangles that match. Also the book by Wim Saris "Handbook of the Hitlerjugend" on Bender Publishing is an excellent source of this information.

    I did not comment on the armband when you initially posted it here so you could have some fresh opinions. I agree with Joecool, and also females normally did not wear armbands like this during the period from what I have seen in photos.

    Here is a link to the Bann number and Area Triangle lists. Please read the information regarding how to use them that posted on the top of the link page for more information.


    Hitler Youth Bann number lists - Area triangle lists - Hitler Youth Forum

  7. #7

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    Wow what can i say so much info ,bit too much to take in at once a.Seems you guys do very fine detail.For all that work i salute you all.Are the area triangles heavley faked yet.Best regards Pete

  8. #8

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    Yes , the Gebiet triangles have been faked for at least the last 20 years , however ; to date they have yet to be perfect . If you have doubts on insignia ... please post a clear photo of the front and backsides and we will offer you our opinions .

  9. #9
    Here's some shots of an unfinished HJ armband that was recently listed on Ebay for 20 USD, along with a description from the seller that states he received "a stack of these from a veteran". The story sounds plausible enough, possibly found in a factory or something unifinished after the war, as the construction looks good from the photos the seller provided. It would be easy to grab a few of these, stamp them with whatever you chose to and sell at a profit due to the multi piece woven construction that appears legitimate. I had a similar armband with a "Volksturmm" stamp on it that I sold on WAF in the bazaar section as a reproduction because I did not think the stamp was legitimate at all. I would be very suspicious of any HJ armbands with ink stamped information on them, especially after seeing this blank unfinished one up for sale so cheap. It just looks like an example of one of these unfinished armbands that has been stamped up to add value or rarity to it to me.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gefolgschaft View Post
    It would be easy to grab a few of these, stamp them with whatever you chose to and sell at a profit due to the multi piece woven construction that appears legitimate.
    I disagree, it would raise huge flags (pun) due to them being a "stamped" or printed multipiece construction. The printed, especially HJ, were completely printed (as the Richter catalog states) and not this way. To screen print anything, the surface needs to be flat, it would be impossible to screen print a swastika on a multipiece construction like this, unless the swastika was so tiny that it stayed in the white strip and diddnt lap onto the red. (or if there was just something printed on the red edges) There is also no point to use both, multipiece and screen printing - it would involve too much work and require printing each one seperately, which is not done, they are done in huge sheets, using three screens (in this case - but up to 20), then cut and säumed.

    Yes the Stories mostly do sound legit, i dont buy them though, at all - not in 2012. I did write a long reply on the WRF conserning screen printing and authenticating screen printed cloth from my point of view, (from a FACTUAL point of view) with my many years expirience in the screen printing industry, and especially with screen printing fabrics, but its been erased, so it was a half hour of my time wasted, and useful info that would help people gone, just because certain individuals did not like being shown up by factual information, and because certain names were not supposed to be mentioned. (the same old names covering and shilling for each other)

    If Forensics can distinguish between dog hair and human hair, then surely someone can get a few strands of cloth from a proven original (or a few) armband(s) and a few from Reddick and friends - and spend some time working out the differences, because there will be some. The same will apply to the thread used to sew them together, as well as what is found between the fibres under magnification, as well as the way the RZM lables are printed. (as well as the paper used for the RZM lable.) Once you view 20,50 100 threads from originals, and make notes, and then view an equal amount of fakes, looking at the same aspects you noted on originals, you will see differences.

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