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  1. #11
    At the moment with the facts we have this is a 100 Euro risk to buy at best IMO. Perhaps more evidence to support will surface and it would have been a good buy at that price, but, it is a risk.

  2. #12

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    What makes me think is the fact, that such a "rare" item is sold at such a low price...

  3. #13

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    Good day Gents,

    finally a topic which falls into my area, which is rare enough. First of all I cannot see clearly the image displayed in the first post since I am not a full member. I hope I'm at least still allowed to answer in threads. However, I will make the effort and will see what happens when I press "Post Quick Reply".
    Where should I start, and please forgive that I just think loudly without having much written proof for anything.

    'Why should someone make an armband artificially hard to sell by adding the blue ribbons' was the first of my thoughts. Especially, when he would have gotten a good money for his standard armband and he's not selling some rare version of badge which half of the collector's world was hoping to see since decades. It is an armband for 100 Euro tops.
    Second thought: "Is this a ripped-off RZM tag beside the strange stamp?". I was under the belief the RZM tags started a bit later and every non-HJ youth organisation would have been long long incorporated in the HJ by this point of time.
    Third thought: "Marine-Jugend as 'stand-alone' is a term which was mainly used post war. The pre-33 term was more like 'Marine=Jugend=Gruppe", "J.Gr. M.V. [town's name]", etc etc. Not to forget the fairly common cap tally "MARINE - JUGEND D.M.B." as generic tally for youth groups within the post war 'Deutscher Marine Bund' organisation.
    And then I started to dig a little a came across a photo (dated 1928) in my collection showing a group of youngsters of the Marine Verein Hameln. The photo is at home, a scan on my harddrive which I carry with me. When I zoomed it up it turns out the photo is not really of studio portrait quality but allowed the conclusion the pennant on the cap badge is similar and they definately wear the shiny cap tally "MAR. JUGEND HAMELN" while others wear pretty old looking "MAR. JUGEND KAMERADSCHAFT HAMELN". It can be assumed the first superceeded the Kameradschaft tally.
    I do have a few dated photographs of boys in naval uniform, which fall into the assimilation period. In particular I have one of the Marine Verein Worms, who still wears his old gold on black tally but has already the HJ armband. He doesn't have any blue ribbons.

    If we talk football, that's 2:1 for being a genuine armband ... if someone could explain the observation of the ripped-off RZM tag I would be not to anxious about the arm band. Some local leader of the Holzminden naval association might have had decided to put the bloody blue ribbons on the armband to distinct members who still have to sign up the HJ registration form but wear the armband already (since it was a UNIFORM) and the others (without blue ribbons) who joined voluntarily the MHJ and which still have to sign up for it but wear the armband already.

    Again, please accept this only as "thinking loudly". Attached the extraction of my Hameln photo.

    Rgds

    Daniel

    P.S.: After WW1 there were youth groups in nearly every single naval association. The aforementioned Marine Jugend of Hameln was founded in 1924, f.e. . However, it was 1928/29 when most of these little groups became organised in the BDMV. And with the parent associations in the BDMV they also dragged the youth gropus in there as well. Obviously the Worms "unit" must have taken a different course into the MHJ.
    P.S.2: The second extraction I have attached is a studio portrait of a boy in the "M.J.A. HARBURG B.D.M.V.". The tallies were white lettering on blue ribbon - I'm quite convinced these were also the colours the MHJ had chosen for their tallies since the "look" had been already established and chosen suitable for naval youth as clear distinction to the gold-on-black tallies of the active Navy.
    P.S.3: I hope you can see anything at all on the attached images since the uploaded file sizes look pretty small.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marine HJ View Post
    Good day Gents,
    [...] First of all I cannot see clearly the image displayed in the first post since I am not a full member. I hope I'm at least still allowed to answer in threads. However, I will make the effort and will see what happens when I press "Post Quick Reply". [...]

    Rgds

    Daniel
    I just realised that something must have happend since my last visit as I can access pictures again ... just to let you know and to prevent "???" and "What the heck he's talking about" of you guys.

    Daniel


    Admin Edit: see the link in post 16 below Daniel. The reason for you not seeing full-size pictures was explained to you in the error message you saw every time you clicked on a thumbnail. Your account was inactive but was automatically reactivated after you made post 13 above. This would have been known to you had you followed the instructions at the link.

  5. #15

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    Got the information that the armband was sold on Mili321. Guess we have to be aware of another fake running around.

  6. #16
    Daniel,

    You couldn't see pictures because until today you had not made any new posts for quite some time. The restriction for infrequent contributors is something that has been in effect since July 2012 and was noted in the notification that appeared in your browser page every time you tried to open thumbnail images to full-size. After you made post 13 above your account was auto-promoted and you were then able to see full-size images.

    Here's what you would have seen if you hadn't ignored the messages: New members and members with older accounts who have not posted for a while As you will notice, no one has to be a Full Member (a member who pays a subscription) to see full-size pictures on this forum as you suggested.

    You also said:

    "finally a topic which falls into my area, which is rare enough".

    As a member of the forum you have the facility to start new threads as well as reading them. A quick search of the forum reveals that you have never started a thread concerning the Marine-HJ (your words: "my area") since you've been a member here.

    Cheers

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Got the information that the armband was sold on Mili321. Guess we have to be aware of another fake running around.
    Hi Michael,

    well, as explained above, I don't have much of a headache with this armband ... apart from the strange blue ribbons and the stamp, which looks a bit post-was. However, back to my post on top there: why should someone make an item artificially difficult to sell if the interest in HJ armband is limited anyway. It is not like he's upgrading the item in some way IF the blue ribbons were attached by the seller! It's more that he triggers alarm bells in the collectors world.

    Rgds

    Daniel

  8. #18

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    Hi Daniel,

    you say "apart from the strange blue ribbons and the stamp", without those two details this would be a regular armband. I would not say it was made artificially hard to sell but "upgraded" and made more "interesting", as such a "rare" item never appeared on the market before... With highest respect to your opinion, in my mind there still are too many question marks on this item.

  9. #19

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    I agree there are a load of question marks. When I said "It is not like he's upgrading the item in some way ..." I mean that he did't glue diamonds to a UBootskriegsabzeichen to make from a 500 Euro item a 7.500 Euro item.
    By putting two blue ribbons on a standard armband he makes in the very best case 100 Euro out of a 100 Euro item since the interest in armband is not the best - no matter standard or a suspicious one with blue ribbons.

    Daniel

  10. #20

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    Totally agree with you... Another thing that always makes me a bit perplex is the fact, that often such items are offered at a quite low price. If this would have been a genuine armband, never seen before, it would not had been offered for EUR 90,-

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