Printed HJ armband - photograph

Garry

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This is the armband which started me on the quest to find evidence for the existence of period printed HJs :) Obviously everyone told me it was a fake at the time but I thought. Nah.. Let's see...

Whether it's period or not I don't know but the fact that it has an RZM stamp should hopefully make that easy to establish if some RZM regulations from early on become available at some point.

The picture proves that they existed but whether the RZM produced them is another matter. As you can see, the boy has not sewn his armband to the shirt and mine also has no evidence of having been sewn to a shirt in the past.

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One would suspect that Printed Hj armbands were late war,but judging by the photo the boy has early boards so that is out of the question.I think that this photo is the closest of proofing that they existed,where many said(including me) that they did not.This is for me proof enough that they did exist.
 
the prob is are you 100% certain the armband in the pic is printed i agree it does look like it is but this could be just the way the pic came out and is hiding the detail
just a thought
 
I'm certain. Blow the pic up as big as you like and there is still no evidence whatsoever of a seam.
 
Just revisited this thread and thought I'd make it absolutely clear that I'm not trying to make a case for the printed armband I showed. That wasn't my intention. I'm trying to find RZM regulations which will show that the RZM definitely did not print armbands for the HJ. If such regulations surface I'll be happy to shred my armband.
 
Following on from Patrick's observation, an indication that the armband might be of early manufacture (assuming genuine), is the RZM stamp, since presumably the "No 134" relates to the manufacturer, as is the case with the early party pins (prior to the full establishment of the RZM organisation), where for example you will see the RZM circle and a separately stamped "72", i.e. no M1 prefix.

Although, I can't remember the exact example now, I have previously sold a badge with the RZM (circle) stamp and even an "No" prefix prior to the number.

Building on this theme, I wonder if it is possible to establish the manufacturer?
 
Yes, here's one I used to own Toby. This is what makes me think that there is cause to investigate this armband further.

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According to the 1936 RZM regulations, it was "forbidden to print or weawe the swastica or the white swasticabase to the armband" [sorry for the bad translation].

../henrik

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That's right Henrik. This is what raised the question I posed on another thread: was the regulation a reaction or a preventive measure? Did printed armbands exist and were banned or was the regulation designed to prevent them being made in the first place?

I think my photo shows that they existed and were worn (not all agree which is fine) so for me it remains a catch-22. What came first? The printed armband or the regulation?
 
would they have been so fixle as to pass a rule to bann printed armbands, after all these could not have been really widespread just the odd ones here and there, in a large group of hj would it have even have been noticed???.
just as a nother wuestion are there any other branches of the nsdap that used printed armbands
 
That's right Henrik. This is what raised the question I posed on another thread: was the regulation a reaction or a preventive measure? Did printeds exist and were banned or was the regulation designed to prevent them being made in the first place?

I think my photo shows that they existed and were worn (not all agree which is fine) so for me it remains a catch-22. What came first? The printed armband or the regulation?

The pins without full RZM code, i.e. circle and number only are thought to date to around late '34, early '35.

If as Henrik says, the regs are dated 1936, that would fit nicely.
 
Just an opinion, but were there any regulations that said printed shoulder straps, printed DJ runes etc were banned? If not, and none of these are to be found, I would think the banning of printed and homemade armbands via regulation was written because they did exist, and were worn or encountered prior to 1936.

Regards

Russ
 
That's certainly my thinking anyway Russ. Henrik's RZM regulation from 1936 would seem to lend useful weight.
 
It raises the disturbing possibility of things that are not generally acknowledged construction actually being real. How many oddities are there that are actually genuine items but get dismissed as fakes by collectors looking to be on the safe side?
 
Another printed armband, I purchased this from a local show from trustworthy dealer who I have other dealing with and he guaranteed it to be 100% original (or money back). While at the show I showed it to two other dealer and they both gave it a thumbs up.

I know there is allot of debate on these, but here are some close up scans. What do you guys think?

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Printed armbands are mentioned before 1936 by the RZM and mentioned that they are prohibited, so a reaction i would guess to combat lower grade fakes being sold around the smaller towns and markets etc.. as was the case with many different articles, mentioned over and over in the early RZM papers.
That's certainly my thinking anyway Russ. Henrik's RZM regulation from 1936 would seem to lend useful weight.
But that's not important, have a look what happens when i mouse over the word seam in post № 4..... :lol::lol::lol:

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:) I have SEAM set as an acronym. There's probably not going to be much call for it though so I'll take it out when I'm next in that section.
 
Here is the first mention pertaining directly to HJ armbands (nov. 1934) ..that printed ones were not allowed. Although i know for certain that even early announcements said this before, but not directly mentioning the HJ armband though.

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Here's an idea: could this be a pre-36 armband? Manufactured before the '36 rzm dated regs? I'm just wondering as the boy is wearing an SA belt buckle - not the HJ buckle that came out in '33.

Rob
 
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