Hitler Youth buckles by Kallenbach Meyer & Franke with different RZM markings

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Recently Oldenburg posted a buckle marked "RZM 3" which got me to pull out my buckles and do some comparisons. I keep 2 folders at home , one for HJ and one for DJ. These folders show my buckles, 1 page for each buckle (3 pictures each with maker and description) I did this long ago for a few reasons, but it allowed me to make notes. I looked up my RZM 3 buckle and there was a note that said "possibly KM&F". This led me to pull out this buckle and my Kallenbach buckles for some comparisons. The buckles I compared are as follows
1. HJ solid nickel marked RZM 1
2. HJ solid nickel marked RZM 3
3. HJ solid nickel marked RZM 119
4. HJ nickel over steel marked RZM M4/3
after a side by side comparison of the (3) solid nickel buckles, I am convinced that they are all made by Kallenback Meyer & Franke. They all have the same eagle design, buckle box ears and claw.
The nickel over steel is the same eagle as the earlier buckles, the only difference being that the buckle box ears are smaller.
As to the various markings,
1. RZM 1 = M1/1 which is Kallenbach Meyer & Franke
2. RZM 3 = M1/3 which is Max Kremhelmer , so this leads me to believe that Kallenbach mis marked this buckle. This buckle should have been marked RZM KH 3 (RZM KH 3 = M4/3 Kallenbach Meyer & Franke)
3. RZM 119 = M1/119 Georg Bonitz, so this leads me to believe Kallenbach mis marked this buckle as well. The marking should have been RZM UE 119 (RZM UE 119 = M5/119 Kallenbach Meyer & Franke)
4. RZM M4/3 = Kallenbach Meyer & Franke
 
RZM 1
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RZM 3
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RZM 119
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RZM M4/3
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after a side by side comparison of the (3) solid nickel buckles, I am convinced that they are all made by Kallenback Meyer & Franke.
Chad, what about the sub-contractors?? That would be the first, and most logical explanation for this.
I picked up a Kallenbach, Meyer & Franke item a while back too.:swiss
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I do see where you are coming from, although my first choice would be a sub-contractor. So would the second and third. :001_cool:

Obviously from small images we cant say anything for sure about them, in order to be 100% positive that they were all stamped under the identical obverse die, you need to find either the same flaws on each, the same stippling, or something identical on all that link them to the same die. You could do this i guess in-hand, as it is a large item and would not require a microscope. Once you have found that common something, linking them all together, you could try and look for it on other buckles from the same period, (regardless of reverse markings) or not even, as i showed two examples in the book of sub-contractors using both transitional as well as later M1/ prefixes on the same badges, stamped under the same dies (amongst many other things)
 

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RZM 119 is definitely Kallenbach, Meyer & Franke. This snap hook here has the same slightly wobbly numbers as the buckle. But underneath there is also the KMF company logo, so there can be no doubt about the manufacturer.
The marking is also incorrect, but here only the letter combination UE (Uniformeffekten) is missing, corresponding to the later M5. The buckle should have been stamped KH 3, but the 119 definitely belonged to this house.

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