HJ Buckle by Thiel, Danzig

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Oldenburg

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Hello all I recently found this buckle, for me it's the first time I see this maker. May I have your opinion on this buckle, is it rare ? Best regards Eric

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Dear Eric

In my opinion, an extremely rare HJ and as a matter of interest, other buckles are found similarly marked Thiel to include DJ and SA.

In addition, a very distinct style of eagle and as a matter of interest, other Thiel HJ's that I have seen have always been two piece.

Here is an image to the reverse of a Thiel SA that I have (note that the box does not have any "ears").

Regards,

David

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Hello David

Thank you for your reply.

This buckle is a two-pieces construction.

I was surprised to see this kind of construction for a HJ buckle.

You're right, except the ears, the construction type is the same.

Thanks again

Best regards

Eric
 
Most interesting marking.
The concern of Robert Thiel from Danzig must have lost its permission or never had gotten one
from the Reichszeugmeisterei in or about 1934. This concern was not listed at all in the 1935
"Handbuch der Reichszeugmeisterei". So, when the handbook was started they had no
such permission, but have manufactured anyway buckles for the SA, DJ or HJ in about late 1933.

Later they got the permission M4/112. This possibly must have come into being after Danzig came
into the Reich when WWII started. They then may have asked for an RZM-permission. Got it, but
lost it already per April 7, 1941. They were not allowed to produce buckles anymore.
The reason was not mentioned in the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM", nr. 7 from May 10, 1941.
 
Hello Wilhelm
Thanks a lot for these explanations.
If I understand everything, it means that this firm produced buckle without permission ?
With that kind of maker the buckle were not allowed but later they became, with the M4/112 !
Thanks again fot this explanation
Best regards
Eric
 
Hello Oldenburg,

I checked again my material. Thiel may nog have had a permission ever at all
to manufacturer for the RZM for the earlier years. As mentioned they were not in
the handbook from 1935, nor did I find any indication or hint amongst the KH
(Koppelschloss) or UE (Uniform-Effekten) manufacturers. If their permission for
that was withdrawn during the creation for the handbook the number was left
open in the handbook.

During the years, and surely from 1932-1934 it was not quite uncommon that
manufacturers did produce nazi-material. The RZM often warned for that.
 
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