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  1. #1

    Why you should never blindly trust or quote any Militaria-Author...

    Don’t trust any Militaria Reference book, don’t trust any Militaria Author and don’t trust any Forum-Name or “Militaria” household name that has, through time become to be a trusted person who’s opinion or posts should be trusted without question. Unless they can back up what they are presuming with solid Facts and thorough research.
    There are many posts (on this forum as well) that prove old, and in some cases new Published material to be invalid so I will refrain from direct linking in order to keep this simple.

    I will just give you an example of where basic History has been misquoted as fact by a few Trusted names in both old, as well as Modern Reference work, and use this small example to clarify my point. A simple question really.

    When was the DAP (NSDAP) founded, and when did they change the name from DAP to NSDAP.

    • In the 1983 Book by J. Cone titled One People One Reich, on page 10 under Political Organizations we read.. [The National Socialist Party was born…in late 1918 or 1919.]

    • In the 1993 Book by Ray Cowdery titled Nazi Militaria, Fake or Real, on page 12 und The Myth of the RZM we read.. [The Nazi Party was founded in München on the 1st April 1920]

    • In the 1997 Book by Ulrich of England titled Deutschland Erwache on page 18 under A History of the First Swastika Flag we read.. […due to the Parties name change on August 8th 1920 to “National Sozialitische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei.”]

    *****************************************************************

    Now, bear in mind we are not talking about Militaria Items,(in the case of Ulrich of England, items worth $100,000.- each and more) we are only talking about plain, silly, Historical facts, that are available in a jiffy to anyone who researches a bit, which is what we would hope these Authors did, as all three of the above mentioned are trusted Household names who’s books are still used today, and quoted on each and every forum, used by others as a guide and to form opinions used later on to authenticate or dismiss actual items based on what these Authors wrote and claimed in their books. (two of them are also Internet militaria Dealers)

    *****************************************************************


    When we look at the facts, and actually consider turning to History books first, we find that the DAP was found on the 5th January 1919, and changed it’s name from DAP to NSDAP on the 1st February 1920. (see page 77 of Müchen, Hauptstadt der Bewegung-Münchner Stadtmuseum and page 22 of Die Entwicklung der DAP zur NSDAP. And any and every Historical Archive you chose.

    If they got this small Historical fact wrong, a fact which is easy to research and should be well known to anyone even slightly interested in the subject they are writing about, then what else have they gotten wrong in their books?

    What does this prove? It proves that the Authors did not use History to reach the “facts and Historical dates” that they printed and claimed to be correct. So when it comes to the actual items they are writing about, if they get basic, Known History wrong, how can the rest of what they say be correct?


  2. #2

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    hello
    as a contributer to the DE book which IMO was well researched have you thought about maybe it was just a simple typeing mistake on the date

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by u869ss View Post
    hello
    as a contributer to the DE book which IMO was well researched have you thought about maybe it was just a simple typeing mistake on the date
    Hello,

    I have no doubt that the DE book was well researched, it`s a good book, i have read it many times myself, and i believe a First in it`s class pertaining to the DE Standarts, BUT, i used this "mistake" in this book to explain a point, so it it does not really matter if it was deliberate ie: through lackof research, or an honest spelling mistake, it serves to prove my point that we should not take everything we read in "these" reference books to be gospel, and believe everything written without doing our own research. Thats all

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by u869ss View Post
    hello
    as a contributer to the DE book which IMO was well researched have you thought about maybe it was just a simple typeing mistake on the date
    With respect Steve, 'August 8th 1920' and '5th January 1919' aren't even close. I don't think we're looking at a typo here.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    With respect Steve, 'August 8th 1920' and '5th January 1919' aren't even close. I don't think we're looking at a typo here.
    Garry, Ulrich mentioned the name change from DAP to NSDAP as taking place on the 8th August 1920, when it was the 1st of February 1920, not the founding of the DAP Still way out though.
    u869ss-Steve,- Spelling mistakes do happen though for sure, surely though any Reference/History book (which is what these Mili-books actually are) should be proof read and checked over and over before printing? Especially checked to see if the dates are correct.(not mundane spelling slips)

    Are these kind of Books not quoted over and over on Forums? my point being the spreading of incorrect, or ill-researched information.

    Spelling mistakes are common, especially when it comes to the German Makers names, Towns etc, but that can easily be attributed to English speaking Authors writing German names, i am sure the same would happen to you or i if we attempted to write a book in Russian.

    Anyway, it`s not really a stab at any one particular Author per say here, (or anyone who helped them with their work) just an example of where three respected and common Militaria names have got basic dates wrong.

  6. #6
    I don't believe anything I read in modern HJ books unless the author provides a full reference to a period publication, law, regulation or similar source which can be checked. Well, I don't have any modern english-language HJ reference books anyway because after only a couple of months(!) of being involved in this hobby I realised that Angolia for example (although an undoubtedly useful book) had many (important) gaps and was often just plain wrong. All it took was the ability to read German - nothing more clever than that.

    Reference books are no different to the best-selling book of all time. The bible is just a few people's opinion of something which might or might not have happened. Imagine a world where the bible has footnotes.... How many religions do you think we would have?

  7. #7
    very interesting and true due diligence is a must in this hobby before any purchase . Your use of Angolia Garry is an important one as he was outed many years ago for including forgeries in his book on purpose and selling the fakes for personal gain. He has since been shunned in the hobby even though his books continue to sell for very high prices


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    for including forgeries in his book on purpose and selling the fakes for personal gain...........
    Something i have always wondered about, "if" it was done or purpose, like the Fakes in the Dagger-Heros books.... I guess most would say that it was an Honest mistake at that time, but i agree with you 100% that they did it with the future in mind, and to have a source later by which to Validate their wares. Or the wares that they pass on to their Pimpf-Muppet's to have them sell it, and use their Books as Back up. What i have always found funny is that when it comes to the really rare items, or one-offs, (i actually mean the fantasy crap created post war) the only people that have ever seen then, or Written about them, are their friends and fellow gangsters.

  9. #9
    It is in many ways an industry of deceit mostly above the law simply due to what it is .


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    It is an industry of deceit mostly above the law.
    If any Fridge magnets are going to be made, this would be it !

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