RZM Labels - Fake vs. Genuine

Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
3,305
Thanks Received
1,750
Location
-
Hit on a though outside. A thread i was helping with on waf, about fake festival badges. Well after taking micro images of all sorts of printed badges, matter, paper and the you-know-what from around the time of Adolf, and comparing them to micro images of one of the suspect badges in question, which i also had - it was "discovered" that the suspect badges in question were not printed in the same fashion as TR period matter was. They were not transfer printed, screen printed or done with printing plates, but rather "plotted."

Here are the images i used for my waf response, so you`ll see what i mean.
Now my question is, why is it not possible to start doing this with all the RZM tags that are known, just to be really sure what was printed in the "typical" manner back then, compared to, as you will see below, the "typical" manner of well after the war. It`s surely an idea? & yes, i know, ...tears before bed time and all that....

11 close-ups of all matter of printed pappe, paper, book covers, card during the time of Adolf

You don't have permission to view attachments.


You don't have permission to view attachments.


Just one close-up of the way in which this is printed. (1 image should be enough for the intelligent, upright walker.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Interesting. Just to be sure Jo, all of the pictures you show are from modern items trying to be old? I only ask because of the way that paragraph before the pictures reads.
 
No, all images except the last SA-NSDAP badge, are close-ups of period printed badges/paper/etc..
 
When i looked at the badge, that was "supposed" to be a genuine item, i noticed straight away that the image was achieved by plotting, spraying the colors, like ink-jets do, you know, a tintenstrahldrucker.
So that is really all that needed to be said about this "supposed" genuine badge. If you want to believe that it is period, then you need to prove that period TR items were indeed printed in this manner.
I do have a slight feeling that this is going to be a hard task indeed.

So this double sided festabzeichen, is in reality two pieces of printed paper, stuck together
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.




And close-ups shows what printing method was used
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
All you would need to know, is what kind of printing methods could possibly come into consideration for that era, worldwide.
Then you could study what they look like under magnification. Build up a library ..
And would instantly be able to "out" a fake that was clearly printed in a more modern way, or a "way" that couldn't historically be correct for that era, like, plotting.... or not? do you think zee Germans were using color plotters? thats the best, because you dont have to even have an opinion and answer that, all you would need to do, IF you thought they did, would be to prove it, with a few simple close-ups of other period stuff printed in the same fashion.
 
That was a great read. I absolutely love it when a thread develops like that. Certain people became very quiet very quickly as soon as the serious discussion started. Evidence - you can't beat it.
 
LOL, yes, and i like it when opinions change.. because normally, well maybe not normally but many times you will not see someone "known" come back to a thread that changes, when they initially said GOOD / BAD.
And more often than not, if a few "known" people comment in a certain way, it can have an influence on a thread, in some cases all that is needed is for a "known" person to wave his hat and say something, and that sways the others.
Mia Culpa for hijacking that thread, but i guess i just wanted to try and make a point.

I do understand somewhat the "authentication by way of comparison of other Internet images", as well as endless debates on what people "think" they are seeing, or think they should see - but it is just not the way to do things. Debates are great, and long, sometimes boring discussions should even be encouraged, BUT, they really need to have a SOLID FOUNDATION. Only when the foundation is rock solid, and factual, can any discussion prove fruitful. So now we have the foundation. " pieces of paper stuck together, printed by a color plotter.
 
The main problem is that you can't always have the items you see for sale in hand first to investigate, and then all that remains is the old method of trying to find period evidence (comparing to many period badges and the poster that i could luckily show). Of course this is not as good as the forensics and in this case we were very Lucky that you had one of these badges to examine. It did get very silent then yes. Im also quite surprised by the many views that topic got, people do seem interested in learning more and that's a good thing.
 
Yes, always better to have a few fakes that are being discussed to check, and be sure. Because "word of mouth" is unreliable. A quick image comparison via your pc screen is unreliable, and a Vet Estate story, or Vet bring back story, is simply a joke at best.

Here is another larger image of the surface of the 157 Standarte. I can actually make micro-videos as well, just need to set up a U-toob account :)

You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Last edited:
wow who would think that it is viable to fake this type of items... these pictures do prove that however. My thanks to both of you for this work :clap2:
 
wow who would think that it is viable to fake this type of items... these pictures do prove that however. My thanks to both of you for this work :clap2:
Exkuuuuuuz me sir? But i beg to differ. Or rather i beg you to differ. No, i beg you to change? Or i differ? I am confused, but at U$D70.- a pop, why not?

You don't have permission to view attachments.


Direct Link
Link to main site

Cheers :001_tongue:
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Have any more tests on these dodgy RZM labels been done at all guys?
 
I believe that someone is already "on this", it will take time though.
Fake labels can be found all around, for pennies.. to study and then to stick to stuff to sell :swiss

$10 for 10 labels? seems fair to me.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
HA, not me, i started recruiting my own personal army of Forensic-Slaves long ago, and membership numbers are now running into the 5 millions and beyond..
Each one sent out into the wide world to inspect each & every TR item under extreme magnification, & rapport back to me, who will then put all the findings into print, and make a fair penny.
Slaves are free-lance, and get ... nothing.
 
Back
Top