Hitler Youth Reichsjugendführer Collar Patch

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thoughts please

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Not really my area Steve. The only clear photo I find is in Angolia's Vol 1, these look a little different than the ones shown in the book. I'd like to see what Paul's take is on this one, he's great with collar tabs. Who even knows if the one's shown in the book are good. :sad:
 
I think it is period.
My 36-39 pattern Judicial Reichsleiter collar tab has similar features.
[It is shown in my non-hj photo album].

kevin
 
cheers guys came from the ex colonel dodkins collection broken up in the 80s
 
Steve, looks like it's getting the thumbs up from those in the know. Great to see it in a collection like yours. This one needs a prominent spot in the bunker for sure. :thumbup1:
 
I found it (i think so anyway) in the bookBADGES AND INSIGNIA OF THE THIRD REICH 1933-1945 . by Brian leigh Davis.
the onley differents is the one in the book is all golden. :confused1:
thoughts please
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This tab is absolutely FAKE. It was manufactured in the 1960's and has made the rounds in several collections. Artur Axmann never wore these tabs. Note the ribbon at the base of the tabs. These did NOT exist. They are indeed similiar to those worn by Axmann but the smaller wreaths and the ribbon are the dead give away. If you are offered these tabs -- Run like heck from them. These have been discussed on other forums in length.

Mark Costa
 
This tab is absolutely FAKE. It was manufactured in the 1960's and has made the rounds in several collections. Artur Axmann never wore these tabs. Note the ribbon at the base of the tabs. These did NOT exist. They are indeed similiar to those worn by Axmann but the smaller wreaths and the ribbon are the dead give away. If you are offered these tabs -- Run like heck from them. These have been discussed on other forums in length.

Mark Costa

Hi,
thank you very much for this useful precision.
Best regards
 
As I am sure this will cause a stir, I will expand on the "how and why" of these tabs. The story is actually quite long and complicated and involves the tabs of not only the RJF but the Reichsfuhrer SS, Stabchef SA and the NSKK Korpsfuhrer. But here goes.

In 1934 after the Roehm Purge, Himmler and Lutze decided to design collar tabs denoting their new found independence and their Reichsleiter status. Both men had collar tabs created that were mirror images of eachother. 3 Oakleaves in the center surrounded by large laurel wreaths. The only difference in the configuration were the color -- Black with Silver insignia for Himmler, Bright Red with Gold insignia for Lutze. Himmler wore this configuration until 1945.

Also during this time the NSKK Korpsfuhrer Huhnlein wore tabs similiar in configuration but with two noticable differences -- his wreaths DID NOT COMPLETELY surround the 3 oakleaves in the middle - they were HALF WREATHS and the colors were Carmine with Silver insignias. This is very important as this plays a role later in the 1960's were the tabs were being faked !!

In 1938 Lutze decided for whatever reason to MODIFY his tabs. The 3 oakleaves became smaller and more bunch together and had a LONG STEM at the bottom. The surrounding wreaths were also of a different configuration and were also smaller. At the base of the tabs tied to the stem, was now a BOW AND RIBBON.

A few weeks later NSKK Korpsfuhrer Huhnlein was promoted to Reichsleiter. In following tradition he also changed his tabs fomr the half wreaths to the full wreaths, to mirror his comrades heading the SS and SA. BUT instead of using the 1934 style -- he opted for the new 1938 design that Lutze just had made for the Stabchef SA !!!!!!!

Enter Artur Axmann. In 1940 when Axmann replaced Schirach ( who wore standard political leaders reichsleiter collar tabs), Axmann also followed tradition by using the same configuration for his tabs. BUT he chose the 1934 configuration still being worn by Himmler WITHOUT THE LONG STEM, BOW and RIBBON. Axmann wore these until 1945. NO DOCUMENT, NO PERIOD PLATES nor ANY PHOTOGRAPH HAVE EVER SURFACED SHOWING REICHSJUGENDFUHRER TABS WITH THE BOW RIBBON ETC. In fact in Saris' recent book "THE HJ HANDBOOK" by Bender Publishing, discusses the tabs shown above and Axmann denied their existance !!!

Fast forward to the 1960's. Counterfitters realized during these years especially, that money could be made on high ranking Third Reich insignias. But as few books contained good close up photos or drawings of them, they relied on Period 1933-1945 literature to make the designs. Unfortunately the period literature did not always show them as they existed!!!

Enter the first mistake --- during the 1930's, few books detailed the configuration of the NSKK Korpsfuhrer's HALF WREATH tabs. But the few that did, showed them differntly than how they really existed and worn by Huhnlein. Counterfitters used these INCORRECT PERIOD PLATES to create what John Angolia shows in his NSKK book, as the First Pattern tabs. Unfortunately, for John and the original purchaser of these tabs -- they were fakes. How do I know -- I have a set in my hands right now !!!!!!!!

Also during this time, Brian Leigh Davis was having artists create Color Plates for his various books on insignias. These artists not knowing the intricate details of the various variations of these type tabs, just took for granted that Axmann's tabs were just like 1938 configuration worn by Lutze and Huhnlein. Hence when his books came out showing Axmann's collar tabs -- his plates portrayed them as having a LARGE STEM, BOW AND RIBBON -- not knowing that these never existed nor were ever worn by Axmann.

I hope this clears up the background on these purported tabs of Axmann's. The only real set of surviving Axmann tabs are in the David Delich collection and were verified by Axmann himself.

Mark Costa

Although, I am new to this forum, many of you know me from the other forums.
 
This would help explain why the Tabs in Angolia's HJ which are credited to David Delich look different than this one shown at the begining of the thread. Thanks for a detailed post Mark, and welcome to the HJ forum.
 
yes welcome mark and thank god i changed my mind about it at the last second long live the straps i say lol
 
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