Driver sleeve patch for HJ members taken on by the NSKK - (Kraftfahrraute für die von der HJ übernommen NSKK-Angehörigen)

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Good Morning Gent's,

can anyone help me rgdg the identification of this arm patch? The seller means NSKK for former HJ members, but I think he was just making something up to make it looking professional.

Your help is appreciated

Daniel

Admin Edit: thread title changed to reflect Wim's information in post #7 below

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Motor HJ qualification sleeve badge. Garry possibly has the criteria for earning the qualification to wear this insignia. Be careful with these, the fakes are well made. I've always been leery of these and the only ones I've seen I think were good were well worn examples.
 
Is this not an NSKK sleeve patch Darin? The HJ (even from 1934) wore the round pink patch with the eight spoke wheel as their 'Kraftfahrerabzeichen'. The six spoke wheel on a diamond patch was used by the NSKK, Motor-SA and Motor-SS (albeit with a black background as opposed to the red/white on the patch shown here).
 
Heres one in wear .

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Good pic Joe. Very useful to see it in wear on a HJ uniform. I've never come across this in any books before and I'm thinking that it's more an NSKK badge than it's a HJ badge.

Edit: I see that Weitze described this patch as: 'Ärmelabzeichen für ehemalige Angehörige der Motor-HJ' (sleeve patch for former members of the Motor-HJ) in one of his old item descriptions. That's the same as the current seller but Joe's picture proves that wrong of course as the boy shown is clearly still a HJ member.

This site calls it a 'Hitler Youth/ NSKK Trainee patch' which may be nothing more than a convenient term for a patch he can't otherwise identify but which looks to be HJ. It would make sense though when you look at Joe's picture. But trainee for what exactly?
 
Angolia's describes the patch as being worn by members of the HJ who would make direct entry into the NSKK with a driver qualification. Sort of a trainee NSKK member I suppose.
 
About this patch: it is mentioned in the Anzugsordnung des NSKK from December 1,
1936 on page 35 shown as Kraftfahrraute für die von der HJ übernommen NSKK-Angehörigen.

Page 34 says further: those that left the HJ-service and were taken over into the NSKK do wear
a special diamond. This is the one shown on page 35 with the white and rede colored. Nothing is
said it is for trainee's. The text tells it was allowed to be worn by those that came from the HJ.
hy the boy wears it with his HJ-uniform, do not ask me. Maybe he did not get an NSKK uniform yet!
 
Thank you for the clarification Wim. I always see this patch identified incorrectly, nice to have some period documentation to explain it's use.
 
Hello Darin and all others that be interested,

I will try to give a full “story” about this quite nice insignia. You will anyway find some information what is not told about by Angolia in his HJ, nor NSKK-book.

The insignia was announced on December 15, 1934. In the “Verordnungsblatt der Korpsführung NSKK”, issue 3 (number 2, about Motorsportliche Ausbildung der HJ – A II/4544/34) from that date a publication was included about an agreement between Hühnlein, the NSKK-Korpsführer and von Schirach, the Reichsjugendführer. In this order all ins and outs about motor-sports training for the HJ-Motorsportscharen were mentioned. This youth was seen as later NSKK-members. Training took place for leading guys at the Motorsportschule der HJ (as far as I remember first located at Arnsberg and since early 1935 at Nürnberg), supervised by the NSKK, which took care for buildings and equipment. For more training the Motorsport-schools from the NSKK were a back-up. When being 18 such guy, when he had passed well all trainings, he was transferred to an NSKK-unit. Excluded were those that remained leaders within the HJ motor-units (these units needed good leaders also). For boys, which was transferred to the NSKK, a special insignia was planned, which showed the earlier HJ membership. This was also noted in the “Verordnungsblatt der Reichsjugendführung (HJ)”, nr. II/25 from December 1, 1935. Page 7 gives much notes.

It is for sure this insignia already was developed in late 1934 (maybe November) anyway, as it was already included in the “Anzugsordnung des NSKK” from January 11, 1934. A picture plate showed the insignia. The full text will be included here as an image, as it gives the official sizes. The first version of insignia had a metal symbol. This is in fact mentioned, as it is said: “the silvered wheel with national emblem, is worn in the same way as is done with the black NSKK-diamond”. These black diamonds, known as “Kraftfahrerraute” had a metal symbol in those days for the Motor-SA and NSKK.
In the “Anzugsordnung des NSKK” from December 1, 1936 it was noted about the HJ-version: “die aus der HJ ausgeschiedenen und in das NSKK überführten Hitlerjugend tragen eine besondere Raute”. This is in fact the same as what was said January 1935. There is one remark: the insignia can have a white metal symbol, but was also allowed to be worn in an embroidered version (leaders) and a woven version (enlisted ranks).

Very important is what happened in 1939. It is speculated that in late 1938 the version with a different eagle was developed, which was then used since about spring 1939. BUT….. in the “Verordnungsblatt der Korpsführung NSKK”, issue 4 from April 1, 1939 it is noted with nr. 73 on page 46: an eagle was introduced, to be worn by the NSKK upon the right upper arm. About the various types of diamonds was said: this diamond, to be worn upon the left lower arm, is in the future only allowed to be worn by those leaders and men that have a driver’s license 1, 2, 3 and 4. The version for the NSKK motorboat-units was worn continuously, but new regulations were expected when a license for driving motor-boats would become a must. The version with black-white piping was allowed to be worn by the winners of the Reichswettkampf for the duration of one year. When a unit won two years one another then they were allowd to wear the special insignia for three years (decided in September 1938 after the annual matches). The most important however was that the diamond for leaders and enlisted ranks, which were transferred from the HJ into the NSKK, was not further worn. It was literally said: “entfällt” (falls into decay). So, before the start of the war, this special insignia for former HJ-members was of no use and value anymore within the NSKK!
 
Excellent post there Wim. I don't know with that member. He refused to acknowledge that he had incorrectly identified a green police rider patch as H.J. and continued to say "possibly used by the H.J." even after being shown the regulations and several examples. As we say in the U.S. you can lead a horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink.
 
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