spanish Falange youth knife , HJ lookalike?

HJ knife ?

here's the one from local forum. I got the permission to post it here. the blade is marked SEAM 1936-8

I am NOT an expert on the subject, but right after the war there were an awful lot of HJ knifes around that were 'unwearable' ( not politically correct). So many had the diamond converted to other emblems, like the french lily (boy scouts) or other acceptable designs. I saw one ( I guess in the early 50's that even had the red white and blue dutch colors with the letters N.B.S. ( NOT N.S.B) meaning 'nederlandse binnenlandse strijdkrachten'
So each time I see one with a different looking diamond, I do get a little suspicious.
Problem is that there WERE indeed a variety of designs and adaptations that were correct.
So . . .who is to say ?
Haen
 
Hi,

I little bit late but want to confirm what nachomenorca stated. These knifes were extremely popular during the first years of the Franco regime. Even some years after, when the regime 'democratized' and remodelated 1960 the Youth movement inti OJE (Organización Juvenil Española) these knifes were distributed but with the Red Cross and the Yellow lion. I remembered, when I was member of the Youth Organization that even in the 70´s you could purchase these knifes.
 
I've had 2 Spanish HJs for a number of years, came from Tom Johnson, who bought them from his picker sources in Europe.

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I just can say they existed, as the brother of my grandmather used one like this. Shame I have no pics about this.
 
BUMP!

Has any useful information come to light on these so far, apart from what a few individuals think? Is there any evidence that these existed?
I noted once more, the same names cropping up ! post 24-
I've had 2 Spanish HJs for a number of years, came from Tom Johnson, who bought them from his picker sources in Europe.
Post 5-
There is one shown in "german daggers of WW2" by T. johnson vol 2 page 581....
LOL... and i noted one either for sale/or sold, at DD Harris`s site (screen shots below)

Anyone?

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This knife was made by SEAM (Sociedad Española de Armas y Municiones) placed on Eibar. I haved benn looking for some image what I did not found. The only one evidence of his existence is the brother of my grandmother and a friend: He had one like this on his house what is owned by his father who was on Falange. My friend doesn't collect militaria and doesn't like Falange, but his father still have the knife.
I know that are just history and as we say buy the piece and not the history; but on spain we do not have doubt of his existence. Another thing is this knife was made since the years 40 to postwar (and is period made for us because is a Franco period knife).
 
The only one evidence of his existence is the brother of my grandmother and a friend:
Hi Albrecht
I find it hard to believe that the dealers (Weitze, Johnson and the one i just added) are all selling these on the basis of what your Grandmothers brother, and a friend said?
There has to be more, right? an in-wear pic (if they were as legit as people are saying) or more on the maker you mentioned, linking him to these knives? i cant find any in-wear pics, or pics of Spanish youth carrying any knives?
Pics below come from here... maybe someone has more? They were more than just a few kids for 1 year, so if if these knives are legitimate, then there will be loads more info on these.... ??

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For me these knifes are not civil war or ww2 knifes; they are just Franco's period knife (until 1975). So for sure the dealer can not base his sale on the words of my grandmother or based on the knife owned by the father of my friend (this knife stil exist and is on hands of the owner who expain even where he buyed it). I will see if the father of my friend have a period photo wearing it.
The other point would be found a knife cataloge of SEAM but for the moment I just haved find weapons cataloge.

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it exists,.... both are original and very hard to find, I also remeber that it has to have a maker's mark on the ricasso, regards.
Question: Why does it exist? because a post war reference book written by someone who has been terribly wrong about many other HJ knives says so? Why does it have to have a makers name on the ricasso? Has it been proven that a certain maker ever made them during the period they are attrributed to? 1936!

the one shown is dated 1942 on the ricasso....
OK, 1936-1942 then...

Don't be sceptical on these ones! they exist and were made in Spain for the Falange youth movement in 30's-40's, ....., real as life, regards.
Question: Why shouldn't we be skeptical when no evidence exists at all, that place these knives in the second WW period. Or is there evidence?

...... is associated mainly with Franco's miltary forces in the civil war 1936-39. Best regards.
What about 1942?

Hi,

I little bit late but want to confirm what nachomenorca stated. These knifes were extremely popular during the first years of the Franco regime.
Then there will be hard, documented evidence to back this up? after all, extremely popular cannot mean an item that is not documented, not pictured etc etc. it surely means the opposite?

For me these knifes are not civil war or ww2 knifes; they are just Franco's period knife (until 1975).
OK, i wasnt sure what period you meant :thumb: But Johnson's one had 1942 on it, and Weitze is still trying to sell his, described as 1936 produced!! btw, Weitze claims that his knife is made in Germany! Es handelt sich bei dem Fahrtenmesser um eine deutsche Fertigung

Maybe someone else has something on interest to add here? surely by now there has been some good research done on these, some period evidence found... or could it be that the evidence, the proof, traces only back to Johnson...again?
 
On WAF, they say it`s a Rare original too, although it`s the same names on this thread on that one as well :swiss
OK, lets see, ORIGINAL? well i do believe that nobody has any proof at all, and as far as RARE goes....?

DD Harris $750.-
Weitze €2500.-
Militaria.es €600.-
Militaria.es €550.-
Militaria.es €150.-
Todo €150.-
Todo €198.-
Todo €330.-
etc
etc
etc....

And dont forget the lovely Variants.... all of course with the marks SEAM 1936/8 on the ricasso..... it seams, that possibly not all it what it seams to be :sneaky2:

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OK, i wasnt sure what period you meant But Johnson's one had 1942 on it, and Weitze is still trying to sell his, described as 1936 produced!! btw, Weitze claims that his knife is made in Germany! Es handelt sich bei dem Fahrtenmesser um eine deutsche Fertigung

Maybe someone else has something on interest to add here? surely by now there has been some good research done on these, some period evidence found... or could it be that the evidence, the proof, traces only back to Johnson...again?

Those knifes was not made on Germany for sure! Aswell Weitze price is not real, the value of this piece is no more than 750 euros.
 
But, if they are from, or up until the 1970`s, then why is the mark SEAM 1936/8 on them? or does the mark have nothing to do with the year? And Tom Johnsons one marked 1942?
And why is €750.- the set price when at auction they are only selling for €150-€190 (see two links above to sold knives at Todo)
And how can there be any "set price" when there is no evidence that they have anything to do with the second WW period?

Is this just another "Reichsparteitage" knife that collectors have come to accept because Johnson published it as so? and that Dealers dictate what the set price is?
Garry`s signature is appropriate here - for now: "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof" - Christopher Hitchens

ANOTHER variant, also marked SEAM 1936/8 so now we have at LEAST, 5 different versions, all marked the same...LOL....
EDIT: A miscalculation on my part, SIX different versions so far, all marked SEAM 1936/8. LOL...........

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This was a good discussion. I hope that some of the guys who took part and who have a more intimate knowledge of spanish collectibles might return. It would be great to hear if anything new has turned up.
 
I know zip about these knives but surely something must be available in terms of evidence putting these knives into the 30s/40s? Metallwarenfabrik has the most convincing arguments so far and he's arguing against them. I don't mean to step on any toes of course as I can see that some members are convinced about the authenticity but as I say, there doesn't seem to be any real evidence for the knives at the moment :noidea:
 
It is easier to fool people, than to convince people they have been fooled.
 
On WAF, they say it`s a Rare original too, although it`s the same names on this thread on that one as well :swiss
OK, lets see, ORIGINAL? well i do believe that nobody has any proof at all, and as far as RARE goes....?

DD Harris $750.-
Weitze €2500.-
Militaria.es €600.-
Militaria.es €550.-
Militaria.es €150.-
Todo €150.-
Todo €198.-
Todo €330.-
etc
etc
etc....

And dont forget the lovely Variants.... all of course with the marks SEAM 1936/8 on the ricasso..... it seams, that possibly not all it what it seams to be :sneaky2:

eMedlas...$2,200.- !!!!!
LINK

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,........ price is not real, the value of this piece is no more than 750 euros.
:jaw:Just listed in the update, but i see it was already there since March by the last post :h
Just in case anyone was interested.
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