HJ BDM Sports Diamond but what is this miniature?

Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
98
Thanks Received
19
Hello All,
I have been pulling old boxes of memorabilia out of 'the darkness' to see what is in there.

We are all familiar with the Large sized sports diamond:

This one is pretty cruddy but original, sadly no rzm tag

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
We are all familiar with the patch above and the slightly smaller one. (I did come across the smaller example to post for comparison but I have mislaid it!)
So I was quite surprised and had completely forgotten the badge below.
It is very small in comparison and appears to have come from a ribbon of badges:

Has anyone any idea what it could be?

All the best
Doug

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Personally , I dont like the small diamond The larger Diamond was usually used on BDM Jackets or sports clothing , the small BeVo diamonds were used on HJ sidecaps ...I have seen too many insignia with that manfacturing pattern that are reproduction .

We are all familiar with the patch above and the slightly smaller one. (I did come across the smaller example to post for comparison but I have mislaid it!)
So I was quite surprised and had completely forgotten the badge below.
It is very small in comparison and appears to have come from a ribbon of badges:

Has anyone any idea what it could be?

All the best
Doug
 
Yes, no problems with the large patch but the cap patch looks very strange.
 
Thanks both for your input.
After doing a bit of research and looking at what else came with this collection I have a tendancy to lean towards the smaller badge being some sort of WHW badge.

I haven't had time to go through my old WHW books and I think the series is incomplete.

If I come across any more info I'll post it here.

It is interesting what you say Joe about it being a reproduction. Do you have any examples of wither mini originals or reproductions?
 
In my opinion, I think these small ones did exist. They did come on a ribbon, you are correct with that. If you look at some of the Sommermütze caps you will see what I mean, these are sometimes identical.
I have a ribbon of these in my collection, but I can't fault them to be honest. I can grab some photos if you want to see part of the ribbon and how it would have looked. Just my 2 cents but I stand to be corrected if not the case.
 
Last edited:
Here is the rear and front of mine on the ribbon. I am not sure if it is your camera but is it me or does the material look completely different to mine?? I am still unsure of them, I really am.
I am sticking with original but like I say I am open to any opinion on them, I have had them long enough to not be worried if they turned out to be false.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Hi Kyle,
nice of you to jump in and thanks for posting your strip of badges.
That little ribbon does look like an original strip to me and this is how I did imagine the one I posted to have started it's life.
The make up of the one I posted appears to be a completely different manufacturing technique but I do note that it is similar to the medium sized diamond that I have mislaid. (You know what my collection is like). I will have to make another concerted effort to see if I can locate it.

The one I posted came with at least one printed tin flag and other bits I will dig that box out and post some pictures (I am not too sure but there may be some other HJ kit in amongst this particular collection)

All the best
Doug
 
So after some considerable delving into the dark areas of my collection I did find the badge I referred to earlier.

Again this one is of a completely different type of embroidery to the other two.

Last picture is for size comparison but I am sure there is one that falls between the large size and the middle sized one I have pictured.

Notice the odd shaped diamond and swastika in the middle.

Again Kyle looking at this one it too looks as though it was formed in a ribbon!

All the best
Doug

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
(You know what my collection is like)

Hello Kyle,
I did find the small vet collection that the small diamond came with.
It consisted of a double sided tin plate flag depicting some German regiment, a small printed Reichs Kriegs Fahne, a paper nsdap pennant a set of Brit 2ww medals (from the chap who 'liberated, the German bits) and nothing else really to write home about.

All the best
Doug
 
We are all familiar with the patch above and the slightly smaller one. (I did come across the smaller example to post for comparison but I have mislaid it!)
So I was quite surprised and had completely forgotten the badge below.
It is very small in comparison and appears to have come from a ribbon of badges:

Has anyone any idea what it could be?

All the best
Doug

IMO Fake :thumbdown:
 
So after some considerable delving into the dark areas of my collection I did find the badge I referred to earlier. Again this one is of a completely different type of embroidery to the other two. Last picture is for size comparison but I am sure there is one that falls between the large size and the middle sized one I have pictured.
Notice the odd shaped diamond and swastika in the middle.


Hi,
You don't have permission to view attachments.


To make a case for the period existence of that mid-size patch it would be necessary to find a point in time when it could have existed and also to establish a specific requirement for a patch of this size that could not be fulfilled by the larger patch.

In July 1934 it was announced that all Hitler Youth clothing, insignia and equipment would come under RZM control. The large patch is specifically mentioned and the regulation states that they were only to be available through the offices of the Reich Youth Leadership (RJF). If we are to believe that the mid-sized patch existed at that time, we would have to accept the notion that that the RJF not only ignored regulations but also that it was filling orders with two different sizes and designs of patch. A non-starter in my opinion and in any case, there is no mention of a second size of patch in the clothing regulations for this early period. The only other diamond cloth patch was of course the small one introduced for the summer cap in Jan 1940.

Could the mid-size patch pre-date the introduction of RZM control? There was a period of grace which ended on 30.9.1934 that allowed non-standard items to remain available for sale if they were at least an 80% match for the standard item but as we can see, the mid-size patch, when compared to the standard large patch, clearly does not meet that requirement. The "pre-RZM" scenario is a non-starter in my opinion.

The only scenario left is the ubiquitous "late-war" period but anyone supporting that position would need to explain why the RJF would not only change the size of the cloth patch but also its design. "Late-war" is also a non-starter in my opinion.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
I know i have only expressed my opinion but i would like to suggest if anyone is a member of the waf to go on fred greens heer fake cloth sub forum.
There you will see fake breast eagles with the same weave, construction as the small hj badge.
From the pictures may i ask if the threads used in its construction are twisted ?

I have 3 large ones myself i would like to share with you guys.
2 of them are on a bike pennent double sided.
When it comes to BEVO imo i would only be happy with this construction and twisted thread.

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
WAF

Another type of FAKE

You don't have permission to view attachments.
You don't have permission to view attachments.


Admin Edit: added pics for those who might not be members of WAF
 

Attachments

    You don't have permission to view attachments.
Yep :thumb: That's the same type as the one in the centre in post #12 above.
 
Great work
thanks for your input and research
looks like this one is destined for the dud box.
I am guessing it was a post war vet pick up to bolster the collection
All the best
Doug
 
Back
Top