HJ triangles from Hungary ( Budapest ) ???

Pimpf359

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I have the three Triangles offered. I think that you are OK.
What is called the NSS? ( Nationalsozialistisches Schülerheim ) ???
Best Regards
Steve

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The only NSS I know is the Nationalsozialistischer Schülerbund which was disbanded in 1933. It did not have any district triangles of course and in any case, the lettering on the triangle in your post corresponds to post-1936 lettering which instantly contradicts the "NSS" designation. On that basis alone and in the absence of any proof that the NSS continued in isolation in Hungary I would say that the triangle is a fantasy.

The "NS-Erziehungsanstalt" triangle makes no sense when you consider what these institutions were. Also a fantasy in my opinion.

According to a 1944 listing of DJ organisations there was no Deutsche Jugend administrative area in Hungary with the name "Budapest". That's not enough to write the triangle off but I would be very wary of all of those items.

Edit: see post #5
 
Hello,

Garry think this are copys... I'm not so sure ! This triangles could be originals. I try to find informations about the V.D.U. youth organisation in Hungary.

Best regards
 
I would proceed with caution on these items. Very rare or fantasy. It's a gamble at this point in time with current research, and when we gamble sometimes we win, many times we lose.
 
Hello,

Garry think this are copys... I'm not so sure !

No, I said that I am of the opinion that the NSS and the Erziehungsanstalt are fantasies, not copies.

On the DJ Budapest I said that it will need to be shown that there once was an administrative Deutsche Jugend district called Budapest before we can move on that triangle. As I said, I haven't written it off yet.

Edit:
I intended to add a follow-up comment anyway as soon as I had read Spannenberger's book on the VDU so now that I know more here goes:

I will revise my opinion of the term NS-Erziehungsanstalt with regard to Hungary. In the Reich it had a different connotation. Whether the triangle actually existed and was worn during the period has yet to be demonstrated but the term "NS-Erziehungsanstalt" was at least used by the Volksbund der deutschen in Ungarn (VDU) in connection to the training of VDU kids along the lines of the NPEA. There were eight of these NS-Erziehungsanstalten known in 19421.

Still on the same subject, Spannenberger goes on to describe the uniforms of the pupils at the NS-Erziehungsanstalt in Fünfkirchen (Hungarian: Pécs): "..wore HJ uniform with the title HSS Baranya...". After that line, "Nationalsozialistisches Schülerheim" seems to be offered as the translation of the acronym HSS (I'm guessing that "HSS" is a typo in the book and that it should be "NSS"). So, if my guess is correct then according to this book the triangles worn by pupils at this particular school probably had "NSS" followed by a geographical location. Did Budapest have one of these schools? However, even if it did and the pupils wore a similar triangle, who would have worn the "NS-Erziehungsanstalt" triangle?

In any case, after grabbing Jo's book (which I really must send back to you at some point!) I don't view the NSS and the Erziehungsanstalt triangles with the same level of scepticism now. There is still a way to go though and I'm looking forward to Debertex's input.


1Spannenberger, Der Volksbund der deutschen in Ungarn 1938-1944 p349
 
Thank you for your opinion. I can these triangles for 1500, - Buy Euro but the risk is too high for me that they did not exist. However, they look good as from the time period.
 
I should have waited until I had consulted the book before making post #2 because I made things sound worse than they actually were :blushing: As Debertex says, there are grounds to believe that all three triangles may well be from the period. If that were to be confirmed by further research it would make them very rare and caution is of course advisable. What is the story behind these? Do you know the seller?

If I had the money (and was still collecting) I might be tempted by these in light of the information in the VDU book. But, there is still much work to do to fully identify their status.
 
The triangles are of a collector. It has been 20 years in possession and the things all come from a property from Hungary. Whether it is true or not true!:noidea:
This is a great money. If it copies are is the money away.
 
Ah, okay. Well, let's see what Debertex (and hopefully Wim Saris) can come up with on these items. They would be great additions to any collection if real. There was definitely an NS-Erziehungsanstalt in Budapest by the way2.

What does the seller say about them? Does he know anything about the schools? A collector wouldn't normally just "have" items like this without doing any of his own research - or without remembering how he got them.


2Deutschtum im Ausland Volume 25 1942, Kohlhammer:

NS-Erziehungsanstalten for boys in Hungary were located in Budapest, Bistritz, Fünfkirchen, Bruck, Großkarol, Klausenburg, Neusatz and Neuwerbaß. Budapest and Großkarol also had one for girls.
 
NSS Hidas

Here is a triangle which is unfortunately no longer for sale. It was once part of the triangles in post #1.

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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info regarding what the seller knows about the items. I haven't had a chance to look into it yet but I will.
 
Looking at the weave I immediately thought they where made in GERMANY and period if not the fakers are using era looms now and we must be very afraid :canada1
 
Looking at the weave I immediately thought they where made in GERMANY and period if not the fakers are using era looms now and we must be very afraid :canada1

The seller provided info to Steve stating that the maker was a Hungarian company called MPI based in Budapest.
 
I will tell you that I would not take the risk. Among many money I buy no triangle thereof. But who is interested can tell me about it.
 
Hello,

Garry did the work ! He gave us the informations we need to make us an opinion on these, IMHO, very rare triangles. I searched by myself something more but didn't find.

The history of the "Deutsche Jugend" (German youth living outside from Germany and having (only) the nationality of the country they live) is still to be explored. There are many facts (and insignias) we have to discover.

Best regards
 
"Freiwilliger der deutschen Volksgruppe in Ungarn" triangle

That is another Insignia, which is from an estate.
Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the youth but it is from the same country.

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Hello

All original rare Hungarian made insignia.

SS triangle the 3 type freiwillige patch issued 1944
DJ Budapest issued 1940 - 1945
NSS Hidas and NSS Budapest 1 type issued 1940 - 1942 NSS - Nationalsozialistisches Schülerheim 13 Boy school and 9 girls
The Holy Grail here, the NS -
Erziehungsanstalt triangle/ NSEA / Nationalsozialistisches Erziehungsanstalt / only two school was in Hungary
Hungarian Volksdeutsche NSS = German AHS
Hungarian Volksdeutsche NSEA = German NPEA

Hungarian DJ also wore the same uniform as HJ. Dreiecke, Sigrune, Armelband, Schulterklappen....... all Hungarian made and sometimes wear the German made HJ Armelband

Best Regards
 
Last edited:
Hello

All original rare Hungarian made insignia.

SS triangle the 3 type freiwillige patch issued 1944
DJ Budapest issued 1940 - 1945
NSS Hidas and NSS Budapest 1 type issued 1940 - 1942 NSS - Nationalsozialistisches Schülerheim 13 Boy school and 9 girls
The Holy Grail here, the NS -
Erziehungsanstalt triangle/ NSEA / Nationalsozialistisches Erziehungsanstalt / only two school was in Hungary
Hungarian Volksdeutsche NSS = German AHS
Hungarian Volksdeutsche NSEA = German NPEA

Hungarian DJ also wore the same uniform as HJ. Dreiecke, Sigrune, Armelband, Schulterklappen....... all Hungarian made and sometimes wear the German made HJ Armelband

Best Regards

Good iformation sinus. How do you know this patches all good? You collect them for some time?
 
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