Brehmer 1944 Kriegsberufswettkampf Reichssieger badge with gold finish?

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Hi,

i have seen a 1944 Reichssieger and I was allowed to take photos...
Am streched on your opinions to the piece...

greetings

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I was a bit shocked to see gold wash on the badge as I've ever seen a 1944 Reichssieger like this. Makes sense of course but these are usually just grey. I'm no expert on these but it looks good based on the pictures. Could you show a close-up of the bird's right shoulder?
 
Garry thanks for your answer...i think we can see the first original piece where the gilding ist not has passed...
Attached the images of the right wing, said the du is point mean completely ok...
And the gilding is not carried out subsequently...
Check out some 1944 Reichssieger and you'll at some of the needle/needle bock find gilt ...

greetings...

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This is a very interesting badge. This gilding would be a logical step on a Reichsssieger but why are they no other Reichssiegers with this top layer? It's so hard to believe that all the other examples have a completely evaporated condition??? It certainly deserve some research!

Regards, Wim
 
Hi Wim,

as I said you can see some pieces with some rest of gilding on the needle and needle hook or see needle-bock ...

show here:

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(WAF thread - Butschek)

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(emilitaria)

If it were only zinc, it would have to use not only made sense a golden needle system?
Although I am of the opinion on the first link (wehrmacht-awards.com) in the wreath still Gilt points to recognize ...

Regards...
 

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Yes interesting, but lets just get things clear. The awards in the WAF links, were at no point ever gold gilded as the one you show here was.
Yours is very sloppy work indeed, with the gold paint dripping onto the painted surface in many places, even with drops of the gold on the surface. The letters are not gilded either, as well as parts of the HJ diamond and cog.

On no other award like this do we see any traces of gold paint on the white paint, as we see here. The way that parts of the gold have "worn off" on this award you show, is not in keeping with how it would have, were the item worn. With heavy use shown on some parts in the middle, yet the tips in parts that would be the very first to come into contact with the clothes, it is still 100% present :nono:

This gold paint has surely been added to the award by a collector, and not period, and as already noted, a poor job indeed. My five cents? If it is original, it has been ruined by a collector.
 
Hi Jo,

I expect such a response, perhaps not in the decisive but art already due to the drops of the gold on the surface ...
The piece is still in private property and the carrier has died recently ...I could only used photos make it ...
It has never been in collector hand!!!

Look at times to several rich winner in 1944 and are not all painted perfect even with the bright yellow color in the middle.
So you think of having this piece carrier held for 70 years in honor, sat down and painted it?
And the wear tracks how long he will have probably worn correctly?

How do you explain the gilded needle, hook and needle bucks the other pieces?
Just because we must not be painted later have one yet seen?

Just let us clarify this with the remnants of gilding on the other pieces that I think is the better approach ...
 
How would i explain......?
I am no simpleton, so realize that because its your item, nothing negative will want to be heard. :nono:
Usually when it is still for sale, then opinions will better be catered for.
 
If they put gold on a Reichssieger, they also would applied a silver wash on the Gausieger, no? But in both cases no other examples can be found.. :confused1: It would be not difficult to do that, they silver washed all the late war zinc made Allgemeines Sturmabzeichen. And these can be found in all conditions from completely evapored silver wash to complete intact finish.


Regards, Wim
 
If they put gold on a Reichssieger, they also would applied a silver wash on the Gausieger, no? But in both cases no other examples can be found.. :confused1:

Hi Wim,

take a sharpen view to the breast and wings:

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(Time Traveller Militaria)

and here to the reverse side:

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(ww2 weapon forum)


kind regards...
 

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Last edited:
How would i explain......?
I am no simpleton, so realize that because its your item, nothing negative will want to be heard. :nono:
Usually when it is still for sale, then opinions will better be catered for.

Sorry but you 're a simpleton i have not claimed...

But on the weighting of your opinion you are you probably not clear ... you're jo rivett and a profi ...
you stamp through your contribution the piece without questioning from , well ...
Further you throw me negative reviews allow no and are referring here to the pennant -contributory ...
sorry what are you doing?
I saw this piece and wanted because garry had helped me the certificate to determine the original (what was important for me so I knew it's all belong together)create a time other contributing with new objections ...

You written:
"This gold paint has surely been added to the award by a collector, and
not period, and as already noted, a poor job indeed. My five cents? If
it is original, it has been ruined by a collector."

Why the stamp, I was looking for an open dissussion to the piece...
The reviews come as your was me aware and I but also thought it only for yourself ...

but after lengthy surveys of the photos and the recherche I 'm not sure ...

sorry I once wanted to show something new other jo ...

sorry for my stupid thoughts ...

I promise it will not happen again ...

regards...
 
How would i explain......?
I am no simpleton, so realize that because its your item, nothing negative will want to be heard. :nono:
Usually when it is still for sale, then opinions will better be catered for.

It is not his item. You even got a "like" for accusing him...

I didn't look at the close-ups in any detail but both Wim and I expressed surprise that this badge has a gold finish because of course, this would be the only known example with it. Your point about the sloppy finish is taken of course but I'm interested in your pronouncement that these badges were always grey in appearance. I agree with you but that is not based on primary sources in my case but rather on the observation of surviving examples. Do you know for a fact that that these badges were always grey and had no finish?
 
You written:
"This gold paint has surely been added to the award by a collector, and
not period, and as already noted, a poor job indeed. My five cents? If
it is original, it has been ruined by a collector."

Why the stamp, I was looking for an open dissussion to the piece...
.
What "stamp"?
You asked in post 1 for opinions, so i gave you "my five cents" - my opinion, which is only stating the obvious.

The obvious is:

The gold has been poorly painted on by hand, missing some parts on the obverse.
There are drops of gold paint inside on the white paint. The edges too, are poorly "gold painted".

My opinion continued by saying that if it was original, (i was of the opinion) that it was ruined.
That is based on many years of dealing with collectors, finding, researching and selling rare badges like a Reichssieger Award would be. So it is based on dealings, knowing (or thinking i do :good:) what collectors like/prefer/would chose.

I cant get into any discussion with you about this award, as i said before, i have no idea if it is genuine or not. I simply do not know. This is not my field of interest, and i have never owned or even picked up one of these awards. But for sure, if there is a need to discuss, then discuss.
But don't get angry because someone states the obvious. If by "stamp" you mean that i have already negatively "tainted" the item by stating the obvious, then blame the guy who painted it gold, not the messenger!
 
Clearly, even a child would recognise a bad paint job when he/she sees it and this badge certainly has one of those. Neither Wim nor I even mentioned gilding - you brought that into the equation. It is quite obviously not gilding in the sense of the HJ-Ehrenzeichen for example so I didn't think I would need to make my point so clearly.
All you have done is point out an obvious bad paint job before moving on to accusing another member of underhandedness. You haven't apologised for that I note...

Edit: it is also quite obvious that Falco is using a translator for his posts. A little recognition of that fact wouldn't go amiss here..
 
Edit: it is also quite obvious that Falco is using a translator for his posts. A little recognition of that fact wouldn't go amiss here..
Dont we all, my native tongue is Xhosa, i use Babblefish for everything :001_tongue:

I saw this piece and wanted because garry had helped me the certificate to determine the original (what was important for me so I knew it's all belong together)
.
Well not from what i read on that thread - http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f56/certificate-reichssieger-1944-a-10834/#post73678 - and because of the way its phrased, "...important for me.." that kinda points to you owning both the citation and award. Otherwise why would it "..be important to you"?
... you're jo rivett and a profi ...
.
The next book i have just finished working on, exposes a large scam. A silly cast item, 5 cms in size, that is shown in the Hüsken books, the Detlev Niemann books as well as in 13 other post-war books, as well as given a thumbs up by e v e r y b o d y , as well as being sold right now by 14 dealers for between 800-2000 USD each.. anyway, i expose the item in this next book as poorly cast P.O.S award, and of course, accompanied by the usual Rivett-Ranting.
So the reality of this book is that "Jo Rivett" (once again) takes on the "leaders" of the hobby, and wins hands down. I guess that will go a long way to further my "profi" status.. BUT;
Why does it make me a profi? All i am doing is taking the item, subjecting it to a detailed analysis under a microscope, and presenting the findings. (detailed images)
You can do that, hell, anyone can do that if they want, but i dont think that would give them the right to call themselves a profi? Maybe a profi-microscope handler?
Imagine the legacy.........:blushing: imagine the shame.... "Olde Jo, he could tweek and turn the knobs on his microscope like no other.."

Of note, in this book, the dealer that you linked to in this thread - Time traveler militaria - jonnyG-west or something like that.. well they too, are selling and have sold, three of the horribly cast fake awards i expose in the book - as genuine :sneaky2:
 
Trying to keep an open mind here: I always assumed that the 1944 Gausiegers and Reichssiegers were left in their bare grey zinc base metal but it is possible that this not was the case. In fact it would make more sense that they finished the product in the correct colours like it was in 1938 and 1939. And it was not difficult for them to do that. Late war zinc based Kriegsmarine badges received a gold wash, and zinc based Allgemeines Sturmabzeichens received a silver wash. So why not the Gau- and Reichssiegers?
The posted Gausiegers, certainly that last one, have indeed some kind of finish on them. I suppose in 1944 the zinc alloy was very crappy, just like with the late war Allgemeines Sturmabzeichens, and in 99 cases the finish is completely absorbed by the zinc base metal.

I don't know if the showed Reichssieger is done after the war or during the war but I do want to make the statement that it would be very logical for them to give the badges a finish like it was done in 1938 and 1939 if it was an easy job to do. This definetly need some further research.
 
Hi Wim,

thank you for your professional and objective response.

Nice that you have the same starting point in the execution of Reichssieger and Gausieger look with which I have dealt with since seen this Reichssieger.
If the piece is not this badly made inner edge, it would still harder to say which is itself made by a collector. Were not all just people sitting there? And it may be that you like today no longer the highly trained people sitting at Brehmer 1944, because they were at war?
One can also, as already mentioned poorly made Gaussieger 1944 discover overpainted yellow color.
This Reich winner was wrapped in aluminum foil for all these years. Perhaps one reason that the gilding is not passed.

Thanks again wim that you yourself have the thing professionally accepted and understood me ...

Best regards
 
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