Advice on these three winter caps

[Juliux]

Best regards, please could you advise me on which of these three caps is the one you would buy. The one with the buckle, in my opinion, is not to my liking. Thank you
1ª
1ª

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2ª

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3ª

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[bertl59]

Hello
1a is good , 3a too and they are for luffwaffenhelpers .
3a is older as the 1a
you will find some info about this kind of caps in the "headgear " section

 

[WernerBamberg]

Dont but the second one.
Its not regulation and can also be made after the war.

First one is Flakhelfer en the 3rd (as I learned, i am not sure) is flieger since the are ventilation holes at the site.

If you just want a cap (not for a mannequin) it would be number 3 for me.

The RZM etiket makes it harder to find and higher in value.

 

[WernerBamberg]

So none of them are regulation "wintercaps"

The second one can be used in ww2, but you should buy a textbook one.
But.. harder to find and nowadays between 450-550 euros..

Textbook flakhelfer (as photo 1) are more easy to find and around 300 euro.

 

[WernerBamberg]

These a regulation wintercaps! RZM (is at the backside of the buckle)

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(Don't have better photos present)

 

[zacker]

maybe the RZM tagged cap, they say vent hole is for a Flieger cap, but no one has shown a period photo in wear that I know of, things get repeated enough most believe then, period pics of FL. HJ show them wearing standard HJ cap which is to be black wool not blue & has a pronged cap diamond not a pin needle diamond as in a membership badge.

 

[zacker]

2nd thought none of them, blue one is a ski cap with HJ membership attached, vent hole cap can't find period photo, other Flakhelfer cap dont like the liner, I have this one with different liner with RBN # which can be traced to Almi Unlform und Mutenfabrik, Inh Alfred Meis Luxemburg

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[WernerBamberg]

Yours, Zacker , is same as the one I have.
Most cloth is lichter and indeed stamped like Your and mine.
But I still think 1 and 3 are good, but the cloth is pretty dark and also the button, compared to the most textbook ones.
But I see no problems..

 

[zacker]

#1 has a chance I would think, shape & cut matches LW HJ portraits with the diamond patch, the other #3 don't know for sure, sure you know those RZM tags come up for sale sometimes, & those HJ RZM marked cap buckles someone posted a photo @ one of these forums some guy had a bag of them for sale on Ebay, can be a headache trying to research some of this stuff. Best Regards

 

[Juliux]

Thanks for all the comments.
Flieger Abewhr Kanonen auxiliary cap
I understand it was adopted around 1943-1945, the wool was a bluish gray, the vents painted silver, the Bebo diamond, the inner lining a dark gray, the grainy blue-gray Bakelite button, and the protective brown goatskin band. . thank you very much for your advice

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[Juliux]

Beware of this label for these caps

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[zacker]

thanks for sharing photos does look like there could be a vent there on cap, looks to have the cloth type diamond also. Best Regards

 

[Juliux]

It could be the effect of the camera or something else, I don't know, in this photo it looks clearer

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[WernerBamberg]

Well there is a flakhelper cap (right) with a vent.
100 % related to a flakhelper boy proved by this photo.

In my previous post I wrote I wasn't sure about the 3rd cap with vents, being a flakhelper, because some say they are flieger hj.

This period photo tells another story!
Nice!

Learning ever day.

 

[Jack]

Flak helpers and Flieger-HJ are not necessarily a contradiction. The Luftwaffenhelfer Ordinance of 26 January 1943 (Az.[Ref.] 11b No. 1/43, Chef d. Lw/l Wehr 1 III) states under point 18, clothing: "The Lw. helpers wear the uniform of the Flieger-HJ".

 

[zacker]

Handbook of the HJ on pg.493 say uniforms for both branches are almost identical, the 2 HJ on left have Flakhelfer shoulder boards with Tresse would they be a Luftwaffenoberhelfer then?

 

[WernerBamberg]

And.. the right one as the LH triangle at the breast. So yeah..
Also nice to see an attached metal hj pin at that cap. The cloth variants are more common.

 

[Jack]

Handbook of the HJ on pg.493 say uniforms for both branches are almost identical, the 2 HJ on left have Flakhelfer shoulder boards with Tresse would they be a Luftwaffenoberhelfer then?

Yes, a silver Tresse meant Oberhelfer, to which you have been promoted after 9 months of "impeccable service".
The guy on the left also seems to have a pip on his strap, which would indicate that he was a "Mannschaftsführer" (i.e. previously the highest-ranking HJ of this unit; they were at least initially from one class/school).

 

[Juliux]

All clear for that we are here to learn thanks for the comments