Kletterjacke and matching Pants Mens?

wizard179

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Hi Guys i need some help..these look period but what are they?
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crack

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Hi, trousers like this were never part of the regulation male or female Hitler Youth uniform and the Kletterjacke was was around before the formation of the HJ so unless there is something on the jacket that clearly identifyies it as being BDM/JM then we have to consider the pre-HJ period in my opinion.

Are there any regulation HJ BDM buttons on the jacket?
 

wizard179

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I dont have it in hand yet..My understanding is that the "male" Kletterjacke had plain buttons as shown in this example, and that pre HJ they did not have this style of button that this jacket has..i have seen shorts in this style and cut from HJ pics, just not the riding style..In the first photo you can see the two different Jackets, male/female
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bertl59

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you can find the Sommermütze in the same material .
I have something similar like your uniform but in cotton and in black.
Pre 33 uniform
 

wizard179

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I have seen similar what your talking about bertl59, does your one have the lace up sides on the riding pants or buttons?..The thing with this set is the buttons, they are HJ
As far as im aware these are only from 33 onwards

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bertl59

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hello Wizard179,
yes exactly !and the buttons are as the same type like yours
 

wizard179

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Im sure i read somewhere these buttons are only from 33 onwards, you should post some pics..it may be DJ? and not pre 33
 
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This type of jacket was common in the early 1930s.
The photo here shows a member of the SAJ (Joung Socialist Workers Organisation) from 1933.
Because it was adopted as part of the uniform of the HJ / BDM it is today only remembered as something NS related.
For sure the HJ / BDM related Kletterjacken were produced in very high numbers so there are today still more of these around than not NS related civilian pieces.

My grandmother was a master taylor in Germany (born in 1907). I inherited hundreds of buttons from the 1920s to the 1960s. Many looked like these and they come in variouse colours including also brown. I would not dare to say that such a button was not used before 1933 or why not after 1945. As long as it does not say HJ or DJ on them nobody would object. When I find my examples (stored away at the moment) I will post pictures.
I personaly would stick to RZM examples, or at least with the well known writing (HJ DJ) on them.

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wizard179

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I was speaking to someone today who looked at the photos and said the tailoring would be of a mid 30s design, more tailored than that of earlier ones..said to note the strip on the inside and the reinforcing of the trousers and jacket...Another guy who said hes owned some of these was saying to someone else, that the Mens NS jacket always had the plain buttons and never the hj marked button..I value everyones opinions,these kind of things are unusual but thats what makes the research so much fun
 

Chlodwig

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Thank you wizard for raising a topic that is very interesting and deserves more attention. I have shown a climbing vest from my collection here, as well as photos that show that the use of a climbing vest in the Third Reich was by no means only made by women. The only difference might be a larger size and the buttons row on the right side. At that time, people found the climbing vest to be very sporty and chic. It was just a style of clothing that is now almost 100 years old in a world that loved uniforms. Even the Reichsjugendführer had worn one - how will the strict rzm have acted on Baldur von Schirach?

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Garry

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Clothing and equipment regulations (I have the regulations) changed almost constantly over the years beginning in 1933 when the first standardisation occurred and as Crack said, these do not show the Kletterweste as an official uniform item for anyone other than females. Now, regulations are one thing and reality often another when money is tight , an organisation is rapidly growing and where the supply chain needs time to produce the clothing and equipment needed so yes, we know of course that non-regulation items were worn and that they can be seen in photos. However, that only serves, at best, as indirect evidence so unless you have an item that can be unequivocally identified as being the actual item that you see in a photo it simply isn't enough to say "this item is likely to be HJ BDM etc because I saw someone in a photo wearing something similar".

The reason why post-standardisation (more particularly RZM-regulated) items are often preferred is because we know how they were made and can therefore say with more certainty that a given item is "real". Basing judgement of the combo in post #1 on photos is, as Christian alone shows, unreliable. The Schirach photo shows him at a young age and is likely from 1932. He appeared at the 1932 Reichsjugendtag wearing a Kletterweste too but try to find a photo of him wearing one post-standardisation in 1933.

Regarding the buttons: the same regulations that stipulated the Kletterjacke for girls also stipulated the button type which, I think, is the reasoning behind Crack's question.

Sorry if I come across as harsh. I mean no offence and am not accusing any correspondents on this thread of doing the opposite but personally I have always fought against the "everything is real until proven otherwise" mentality that I often see on other forums. The amount of trash getting the thumbs up on certain sites and the endless amounts of "dealer A says these are real", "this guy is a moderator and wouldn't lie" and "dealer B's book shows these as real so mine is too" only lines pockets and often has little to do with history.
 
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