Another post which I'm making for the flag lists.
This is a Gefolgschafts flag which I think I first saw in 2008. Toby asked for my opinion of it and the photos below are his. There is a thread over on WAF which comments on this flag (and uses a quote from me which came from an email... whatever...) but better to have a thread about the flag here where it belongs - on the best HJ forum on the net
So, this would seem to be a flag with conflicting signals. The corner patch is early and shows the unit designation Gefolgschaft 2 / Unterbann VI / Bann 73. Below that there is an MHJ tally for 1/445 Hoya. When I looked into the numbers in 2008 I said:
"You have two separate identifiers:
Bann 73/Unterbann VI/Gefolgschaft 2
A separately applied blue strip of material with '1/445 Hoya' (MHJ tally) directly below the Bann 73 patch.
As I said, doesn't make sense on first inspection but... there is a link between these Banne:
Bann 73 was originally called Mittleweser but was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1935/6. Part of the territory previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya which was created during the same reorganisation. This raises the possibility then that the area covered by Gefolgschaft 2 of Bann 73 now belonged to Bann 445 Hoya meaning that the flag was redundant. That in turn raises the further possibility that this flag, rather than being disposed of, was put into use by Gefolgschaft 1 of Bann 445 Hoya until its own flag was made and issued. A transitional flag if you like. The appearance of the flag with its two-colour cord and Unterbann marking definitely places it in the period where the reorganisation took place so from that perspective my scenario works too.
Whether the scenario is actually true we'll probably never know but what is true is that there was a definite link between Bann 73 and Bann 445 due to the reorganisation in 1935/36 and that the flag configuration (if you overlook the 1/445 tally) is correct for that period.
I really like the flag and nearly bought it myself when it was on offer but I just didn't have the cash free at the time. A very interesting item. "
Bann 445 Hoya first appears on the RJF Bann lists in 1938 and Bann 73 Mittelweser is still shown as Diepholz on the 1937 list so this must also have changed in 1937/8. So, this part: "Bann 73 was originally called Mittleweser but was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1935/6. Part of the territory previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya which was created during the same reorganisation" should read as follows:
"Bann 73 was originally called Mittelweser but the name was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1936/7 (exact date unknown to me). Bann 445 Hoya was created in 1938 and some of the area previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya".
Anyway, the thrust of my reasoning was that this odd-looking flag seems to have a logical explanation after all because of the territorial link between Bann 73 Mittelweser/Diepholz and Bann 445 Hoya. When the MHJ tally was added is a completely different matter of course. Period or post-war? I don't know.
What does everyone else think?
This is a Gefolgschafts flag which I think I first saw in 2008. Toby asked for my opinion of it and the photos below are his. There is a thread over on WAF which comments on this flag (and uses a quote from me which came from an email... whatever...) but better to have a thread about the flag here where it belongs - on the best HJ forum on the net
So, this would seem to be a flag with conflicting signals. The corner patch is early and shows the unit designation Gefolgschaft 2 / Unterbann VI / Bann 73. Below that there is an MHJ tally for 1/445 Hoya. When I looked into the numbers in 2008 I said:
"You have two separate identifiers:
Bann 73/Unterbann VI/Gefolgschaft 2
A separately applied blue strip of material with '1/445 Hoya' (MHJ tally) directly below the Bann 73 patch.
As I said, doesn't make sense on first inspection but... there is a link between these Banne:
Bann 73 was originally called Mittleweser but was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1935/6. Part of the territory previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya which was created during the same reorganisation. This raises the possibility then that the area covered by Gefolgschaft 2 of Bann 73 now belonged to Bann 445 Hoya meaning that the flag was redundant. That in turn raises the further possibility that this flag, rather than being disposed of, was put into use by Gefolgschaft 1 of Bann 445 Hoya until its own flag was made and issued. A transitional flag if you like. The appearance of the flag with its two-colour cord and Unterbann marking definitely places it in the period where the reorganisation took place so from that perspective my scenario works too.
Whether the scenario is actually true we'll probably never know but what is true is that there was a definite link between Bann 73 and Bann 445 due to the reorganisation in 1935/36 and that the flag configuration (if you overlook the 1/445 tally) is correct for that period.
I really like the flag and nearly bought it myself when it was on offer but I just didn't have the cash free at the time. A very interesting item. "
Bann 445 Hoya first appears on the RJF Bann lists in 1938 and Bann 73 Mittelweser is still shown as Diepholz on the 1937 list so this must also have changed in 1937/8. So, this part: "Bann 73 was originally called Mittleweser but was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1935/6. Part of the territory previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya which was created during the same reorganisation" should read as follows:
"Bann 73 was originally called Mittelweser but the name was changed to Diepholz as part of a reorganisation in 1936/7 (exact date unknown to me). Bann 445 Hoya was created in 1938 and some of the area previously covered by Bann 73 was transferred to the new Bann 445 Hoya".
Anyway, the thrust of my reasoning was that this odd-looking flag seems to have a logical explanation after all because of the territorial link between Bann 73 Mittelweser/Diepholz and Bann 445 Hoya. When the MHJ tally was added is a completely different matter of course. Period or post-war? I don't know.
What does everyone else think?
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