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  1. #1

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    dj sigrunes

    hi all
    we all know the regular oberbann sigrunes
    oberbann 1 red
    2 yellow
    3 green
    4 blue
    5 black
    6 white

    but i noticed on one of darins thread other colours a red sigrune on a white background and a red sigrune on a blue background, what where these for
    stu


  2. #2
    Stu, those are the earlier versions in use before standardisation in 1934. Many of them seem to be odd colored because they match the state colors, sort of like the real early HJ straps. Edit, the red rune with white background is pictured on page 71 of Youth Led By Youth vol 3.
    Last edited by Gefolgschaft; 18th July 2009 at 03:02 AM.

  3. #3
    The Jungvolk was the only youth organisation which was permitted to continue using its pre-Hitler Youth symbol after going over to the HJ on the 27th of March 1931 so a lot of these odd runes are likely to date from the years before that point but I've yet to find a book - period or modern - which gives an official date (with reference) for the introduction of the Sigrune armpatch prior to the standardised version in 1933.

    The earliest reference I have for the wearing of the sigrune by the Jungvolk dates to 1930 but unfortunately it isn't described in any detail only that it was worn on the left sleeve. The pre-1933 colours must have been chosen using some kind of system but certainly for me it remains a mystery. I wonder if any information on that is given in the clothing regulations from 1933? What do Angolia etc say about the introduction of the sigrune patches?

  4. #4

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    thats what im curious about i thought these where early insignias but was wondering if they where from specific areas or groups and how many differant ones are there

  5. #5
    Garry, the Angolia books are vague at best in terms of information on the early sigrunes. They show a few photos but not much information.

  6. #6
    Cheers Darin.

    I've just been looking at a load of photos in early books and sometimes there's a pattern with the runes and sometimes not. Some pictures show DJ boys wearing the HJ armband, another interesting photo shows a rune armband being worn, some boys have no insignia but are marching with other boys wearing runes etc etc. Nothing new there and it doesn't answer the question of whether the rune was something introduced after the DJ was formed or whether it had been in use by one (or indeed all) of the Jungvolk groups prior to the amalgamation. The DJ was very small in size compared to the HJ when it went over in 1931 and didn't really explode until 1933 so perhaps there was no need to enforce a common rule as far as the Sigrune was concerned which could explain the variations and the rarity of these pre-Oberbann runes. Definitely something worth looking into more.

  7. #7
    There is a caption on one of the photos in the Angolia book showing an early pattern rune that states it was worn prior to the district triangle being introduced.

  8. #8
    I've asked this question on another forum, maybe Wim will respond there with more information.

  9. #9
    Yes, he very possibly has a copy of the RJF order governing the introduction of the new Oberbann runes. With a little luck it may describe or say something about the old rune system.

  10. #10
    A little more on this subject. Wim's book lists the colors for the dual colored piping for the early HJ shoulder straps by location according to the color of the piping and numbering. The list covers the time period from April 1931 to January 1933. It lists the HJ Gruppe/Gau by Bann name, the two colored piping for the Gau (during SA assignment), the basic color for the Gau and as used on the shoulder strap numbers, and the colors used before the July 1933 reorganization. It is a complex section of the book with many footnotes. While it does not specifically address the early DJ Sigrunes, it would make sense (to me anyway) that the sigrunes colors would follow suit.

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