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  1. #1

    Early hollow-back Hitler Youth achievement badges

    Does anyone have experience with these hollow-back HJ Leistungsabzeichen? I've seen a few over the last years and I've attached pictures of one which is currently up for sale on a dealer's site. All of those had very low numbers which would of course indicate that hollow-back badges were produced for a short while in the early period 1934/early 1935. The one pictured has a really nice look to it but I was wondering what you guys think about these hollow badges?

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  2. #2

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    I don't know much about these badges, but in my opinion that they are OK.

    Here's another from Philipp Militaria with number 2226.

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  3. #3
    Thanks for the picture Henrik. Another low one at 2226.

  4. #4

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    the finish looks good and the numbering looks like it was period done so i would have one

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    Does anyone have experience with these hollow-back HJ Leistungsabzeichen? I've seen a few over the last years and I've attached pictures of one which is currently up for sale on a dealer's site. All of those had very low numbers which would of course indicate that hollow-back badges were possibly produced for a while in the early period 1934/early 1935. The one pictured has a really nice look to it but I was wondering what you guys think about these hollow badges?
    Is`nt that the one off of the JC site Gary?
    I`m not sure about them, The pin doesn`t look `right` to me.

  6. #6
    I know very little about them unfortunately Dean. I like the look of Jamie's badge and I believe that these hollow-backs are period but I can't personally show anything which would prove that. What we need to do I think is to get as many examples as possible into one thread and have a good look at them/discuss them. Perhaps we have members with access to period sources which specifically mention the hollow-backs. That would be excellent.

    There are two early types around: the hollow badges (I have yet to see one with a maker) and the solid badges with maker (no RZM). The vast majority of course are from the RZM period but I haven't come across any references which discuss the early ones in detail.

    Let's all get our heads together and see whether we can push this one on.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    The vast majority of course are from the RZM period
    Garry, they were introduced in 1934? so therefore all of them were from the RZM period
    BUT, this was the start of the RZM markings, and as we know from the early announcements, makers were doing what they wanted right up into 1935 and beyond. These were most certainly not all ordered through the RZM or a Großhändler back in the start, and taking the amount of makers into consideration and the size of Germany, i cant see any reason why they could not be original.

    Regards the ".....Pin does not look right to me" Not wise to even go there. What the majority of collectors *think* they know about pins and attachments today is laughable, based on nothing other than comparison, and has absolutely nothing to do with history.
    In fact, it`s actually a Plus for this item to have a pin that does not fit in with the majority, that is more than acceptable and correct.
    Most early items made by obscure makers in an incorrect way usually do have weird attachments. You should be aware, that the maker of badges and awards, would most certainly have not, made the attachment as well. Not just in 1934, but all the way through to 2011 I already covered this topic some time ago here.

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    Footnote: When i say that makers were doing "what they wanted.." i don't mean they were deliberately going against laws and rules, we have to remember how Big the German Reich was, and how any NS Item, official or not, was being produced by tens of thousands of backyard makers for 15 years prior to this. They did not have email and TV like we have today, so any new Laws and changes were slow to reach every makers ears, and every area, and even after they did, slow to implement. That`s why we read the same RZM announcements over and over even years after they were first Published, reminding Makers of the rules and how they should either make, or mark certain items.

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    Let's all get our heads together and see whether we can push this one on.
    That would be great if it could be concluded either way about these early Hollow badges.

    Plus, thanks for your advice Metallwarenfabrik, VERY helpful

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallwarenfabrik View Post
    Garry, they were introduced in 1934? so therefore all of them were from the RZM period
    You know what I meant

  10. #10
    The Braunschweig badge springs to mind, first Hollow then RZM marked and Solid.

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