Hitler Youth Honour Daggers and bayonets with engraved pommels?

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Over on the site germanwarbooty there is a what is described as a Hitler Youth honour Dagger ($2,900.00 ). Whats the deal I have never heard of one of theses and never seen one in any of the books I have,what think ye.Cheers
 
Hi there,

I never saw anything like that before. Another Fantasy Item? I have no idea whatsoever over Daggers, so, hope someone shows a little bit more light on the Knife.

(Admin Edit: pictures added)

Regards

Antonio

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Such a knife I was given in 1971 by a German relative. He mentioned it to be a knife for guards, but I have
never seen any indication, regulation or whatever about it
. If it would be a honor knife I think it would have
been mentioned in the earliest days of the better HJ organization (so 1932-1933 - Verordnungsblatt).

Could not even find out if such knives were faked, as daggers were not my favorite. I have never seen another one.
The one from "Germanwarbooty" is the second one I have seen now, so I think they are rare (even when one day
it turns out to be a fake). I am not an expert on daggers or knives, so I don't know about originilaty!

Something in my brain says I know this knife. I had never photographed mine and my memory is not so photographic
I can tell it to be indeed. I traded the knife shortly after I got it, as in the beginning I was not interested in daggers or
so. When I remember well: the guy with whom I traded it had many contacts with US collectors. Who knows this is the
knife I once owned!!
 
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operaman: you can see some variations in volume 1 from "The HJ" from Angolia,
page 141. This book was published in 1991. Another variation is told about in "The
Hitler Youth" from David Littlejohn, published in 1988, page 241.

Maybe all of the shown versions could be fakes. Or it should that originality is stated
with written information from the Third Reich-period. Maybe Garry or Metallwarenfabrik
know more about them?
 
You will find them in the 1973 F.Stephens book, but i cant remember what he said about them, in any case, you see at least 1 a year on the net for sale with some description. (there are different kinds, one was just posted on WAF :)
Smells like Jim Atwood, Major a.D !

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close up of the one at WAF...

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thanks Joe. I am sure the one I had did not have the SS motto, but the HJ motto.
Maybe you see them often, but I never look at daggers. No interest and no real
knowledge about them!
I think it will turn out all of this stuff to be fantasy or fakes/frauds. Glad I did trade
the one I had. Got something nice in return for that: a series of original buckles!!
 
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I forgot to mention that there was an "honor" version for the HJ, the NSDAP the BDM as well as every other Organization that Atwood knew of.. The (by todays standard gay) Celtic pattern found on them, is said to represent something Nordic, and was probably done by Gahr himself around April 1945. (this is a joke, i dont believe for one moment that these have anything to do with the TR period whatsoever)

edit: If you prefer MINT, you could have Flying Tigers one for only £3018,26.- it must be a rare Rohling because there is no paint (yet) a truly magnificent dagger - :thumb:

last pic = One of the HJ ones from WAF a few months ago .. seems they know this one is 100% original... :noidea:

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Like Wim I can see no mention of these knives in any of the period sources I have here. US dealer Ron Weinand has championed this type of knife in the past (still does) and in support of his case he will post a photo of a boy in uniform (that he copied from hj-research) who looks to be aged between 12 and 14. The only similarities are that the knife he is wearing has a similar pommel shape and is clearly longer than the standard knife. The photo is not of sufficient quality to see if the knife has any engraving on the pommel and therefore the photo is in my opinion not proof of anything in regard to the knife shown in Antonio's post.

I don't like the description of these daggers and agree with Wim. If an honour knife had been commissioned by the RJF in the early (pre-1933) period that would give the Hitler Youth over 12 years between then and 1945 to note its existence in documentary form. The Potsdam badge was an honour badge dating to 1932 and it is amply covered in publications right up to 1940 but where is the mention of this knife? I smell fish...
 
Garry, the photo you mention I believe was first shown here by Zander.

I'll see if I can find the post.

Regards

Russ
 
The pic is in Zander's excellent photograph thread.

Hope he doesn't mind me posting it here for reference.

The knives are real, but are their various engravings and blades?

Having both SS and HJ mottos makes me suspicious.

No doubt, we'll be told they were early and un-official for both the SS and the HJ.

More over priced and un-supported pieces again, being championed by the brethren.

Regards

Russ

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This photo is what is being used as "proof" that these are genuine? really? thank God i dont collect Daggers - or deal with any of the people of sell them. A Special, early, Honor knife for HJ and SS? with Irish-Celtic pattern on both... these fall surely into the same category as the humped up Honor Bayos that are found for Wehrmacht etc etc, with outlandish engravings..
To take an original bayo or knife is common, look how the Olympic knives started out, with bogus etchings on good blades.

When you hear "Genuine" "looks good to me" "Great find" for decades, it makes the item real..and who are those who are saying, and selling them as real? Oh??? the very same people who sell the Reichsparteitage , Olympic and other stupid knives.. I dont think the "Photo" is that stupid actually, remember Gottliebs homemade Photo-Album pic, supposedly from the Eickhorn Factory? used in support that the 69,995,.- birds head was genuine? ha ha ha ha ha, at least this photo is genuine, although if this is Definite proof then its no wonder why so many have had the wool pulled over their eyes by the USA dagger Mafia.

That Celtic pattern just makes me want to chug the Black Gold and my dance on!
 
The photograph does not specifically show a member from the HJ.
The use of the two cockades does not state this. The lad could be from any of the
many other youth-organizations (even as Scharnhorst or whatever)!

I got this photograph, but with a better quality, years ago from Steve Aley for use
in one of my coming books. At the reverse it is dated June 2, 1933. So with this one
can be sure the lad is not from the HY, but posibly from a youth organization which
was just incorporated within the HY-organization! One cannot see if there is a HY
diamond or another symbol. One can guess, but not know for sure!

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Thanks Wim, a "Gem" of information there :) So definite Proof then that members of other organizations were awarded SS and HJ Honor-Knives in 1933 - Splendid!!! LOL........
 
That's what you say, Joe.
Here another enlargement, which does not give any proof!
Could not make it better. Maybe Steve can make a better scan
with enlargement.......

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That's what you say, Joe.
Wim, i dont think for one minute that any of these bogus etched "honor-knives" are real at all.. i smell Atwood all over them.
The Bayo looks like a normal bayo? and this is what Weinlands and Friends are using to sell the honor knives?? good Lord....
 
I think the knife the lad is using, does not have the full length of a normal bayonet.
We really do not know what happened before the actual introduction of the HY dagger.

Who knows it was a wish and due to the demand manufacturers may have made all
kinds of UNOFFICIAL knives, looking as a bayonet. Blade lengths bayonets are in
cataloques from various manufacturers as 25.0, 20.0 cm and even 15.0 cm (the so-
called Armeedolch from WKC ).
 
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Update: see page 294 of Collecting the Edged Weapons of the third Reich Vol. 2 by Tom Johnson... LOL.. he pictures the above NSDAP-SS knife and says:
Rare early HJ Knife bearing the SS Motto

LIKE A BOSS. I guess its a catalog-collectors piece, in fact, every example i have seen, had traces of wool on them.. Bäääääh Bääääh :swiss

edit: We already talked about these 1 year ago on this thread. There are more images of other knives there as well as the F.Stephens 1973 catalog images, which show ANOTHER version as well with HJ diamond engraved into the same celtic pattern.
The name TONY OLIVER is mentioned in the F.Stephens 1973 catalog.. and we know who he was? a Major Forger of lots of things ........

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Sammler erwache!

Update:
So we have a variety now;

HJ honor knife with HJ flag
HJ Honor knife with HJ diamond
NSDAP sympathy logo (with SS motto on blade)
SS rune (with SS motto on blade)
SAMMLER ERWACHE!

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