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  1. #11

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    Hello,

    Link sales and other items that the seller offers, to get an idea :

    Eisernen kreuz -->vend trompette HJ

    Untitled Document

  2. #12

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    Thank you for helping me.

    I'll get soon,more pictures of the banner.I hope in good quality

    My friend admit that music instruments are not his specialty,and he doesn't have your knowledge .Then,he prevent me "be careful of the fake!"

  3. #13

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    Hello David,

    here is the picture of my trumpet with the details of the HJ mark.
    Best regards

    Eric
    trompette HJ.jpg

  4. #14

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    ah! thank you very much!

  5. #15

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    mine comes from the Reichsgau Wartheland, Bann 663, Litzmannstadt

  6. #16

  7. #17
    Here's a thread where instruments were discussed. According to that 1941 publication, there was no requirement to source a fanfare through the RZM. The requirement was that the instrument had to match the specifications set by the RJF. An example of a fanfare with an M10 marking is shown on that thread but it is the only one I'm aware of. The others are all generic fanfares from various manufacturers.

    The RJF specified the following for the fanfare:

    Es standard tuning
    HJ eagle on the flare
    750mm total length

    However, this was 1941. There will have been a large variety of fanfares from different manufacturers being sold all over Germany and the Reich and so there isn't going to be a 'Hitler Youth' fanfare in my opinion - unless it has an RJF eagle and unless information can be found to show that the RZM M10 type in the thread I linked to is a standard type. The manufacturer's name must be the initial governing factor. If he was making fanfares pre-1945 then they could have been used by the Hitler Youth - that's really all we can say in my opinion.

    The DJ fanfare banners were supplied through the RZM but during the period there were so many different variations/sizes that I don't think it's possible to give an answer on authenticity most of the time. This is definitely one of those items that needs to be smelled and handled.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by WIDUKIND View Post
    I have an identical trumpet in my collection. No doubt about it !
    Just an observation. The trumpet you have, is nowhere near "an identical trumpet" as this one. We have two very different trumpets here.
    The one that started off this thread has only a manufacturers name, and a city/town/area name- stamped - The HJ diamond has been hand engraved, and looks nothing like yours. Also of interest, is that whatever is engraved (or acid etched) under the HJ diamond, is done in Gothic, and not in the same style as the original makers markings, meaning that the name as well as the diamond, were most certainly not done at the time of production/together, or by the same maker - during the same marking process.

    Conclusion: The HJ diamond as well as name were done after the trumpet was made. When? well thats up to the owner to believe when he wants, 1939, or 2009 ...

    The second trumpet has a very different HJ diamond engraved onto a large open space, and machine engraved lettering above.... most certainly not done by the manufacturer!

    Conclusion: What evidence is that at all, to suggest that this trumpet has anything to do with the HJ ? None at all, it depends on what you want to believe. (or whatever grand story the seller can find)

    The only thing that is certain, is that both trumpets shown here are nowhere near identical, they are very different, the HJ diamond is different as well as the writing/slogan. They are also not "an eagle" but a simple, (and 2 different) HJ diamonds.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #19

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    It is certain that the engraving was made after the manufacturing of these trumpets but that does not challenge their authenticity.
    The engravings of these trumpets are certainly due to a personal initiative and during the same period.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by WIDUKIND View Post
    but that does not challenge their authenticity.
    Nothing challenges the authenticity of the trumpets, and nothing supports that the embellishments were done either before, or after 1945. The personal initiative could also be that of fleecing, turning a €80.- trumpet into a €900 trumpet.

    If i had something like this, with engravings on, which i do of course, and if i wanted to be sure that the engraving was not done by Olaf Brosinjakski, yesterday, then i would examine, in detail, the engraving and the areas around it, i would look for the patina, because if the engraving was done during the period, then the surface that it is on, would have come into contact with all sorts of wear and tear, and under the microscope, you would clearly be able to see if what you were looking at, fitted in well with what you would expect to find, were it genuine.

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