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  1. #11

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    Best advice is to stay away from these Meisterschützen. Like you said: noboday knows which ones are good and which ones are bad. Also remember this is a extremely rare award while the market is floaded with so called good ones.

    Regards, Wim

  2. #12

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    Yesterday this piece came in the mail from Hamburg! Weitze was the dealer. I hope that is one of the rare originals! I have livelong warranty! Please give me your opinions!
    Thanks, Gerold

    FullSizeRender.jpg mei1.jpg

    Here in comparison with the other one from me:

    mei2.jpg mei3.jpg

  3. #13
    I cant quite see anything from the obverse image, is it supposed to be gold?
    At this early stage with blurred obverse image i would say fake.

  4. #14

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    Hello Jo!
    Thank you for your statement! Is this Pic better?
    It is very difficult to make better pic!

    DSC01714.jpg FullSizeRender.jpg

  5. #15
    No that picture is worse.
    Here is another from Weitze, also a fake.

    245883.jpg 245883_1.jpg

  6. #16

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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HJ_Collector View Post

    Hi, not sure i understand this post? Start off by trying to take a good clear image of the actual item. I doubt anyone is going to say anything just on these two, unclear images :-( What could they say?
    If things are not clear, you are not going to get a clear answer.

  8. #18
    Hi Jo,

    I remember reading that sunken enamel inside the rings is a bad sign. Sounded like collector lore to me but have you seen it on genuine enamel badges?

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    Hi Jo,

    I remember reading that sunken enamel inside the rings is a bad sign. Sounded like collector lore to me but have you seen it on genuine enamel badges?
    I only have a fake of this badge right now, but from what i can see if i look at the badge from the side, is that the outer edging is the same hight as the surface of the "target" - the rings filled with black enamel.
    So thinking about actually making it, firing the black and taking it out of the oven, it would not really be possible to give the obverse a good polish as it is with normal badges with no wreath or border...
    If you did, you would no doubt "hit" the wreath edging. So i would think that it would have been normal practice to fill the obverse carefully with black enamel, and just fire it without polishing down. i.e: making sure you didn't just slap more black on than was necessary. Maybe a small amount of polishing after would be possible, but you don`t have the playroom to polish it down to the same level as you do on others - Parteiabzeichen etc, or anything without a border.

    I have never heard that before about the sunken black, but it wouldn't bother me in the least to see it - or not. Even on badges with no border to get in the way of polishing, we see many times that the badge was just filled with enamel, fired and then sold. Sometimes there was not enough enamel used and small parts of the rohling are still visible that the enamel didn't cover, and sometimes too much was used and it was not polished off completely...
    I would first look at other things, and not even consider the enamel. Unless of course i had it, then i would certainly have a look at it under the scope and see what was going on, but would still not use the enamel as any indicator on it`s own, that the item was not good - or good.

    Clear images are what is needed, and that is possible today with a good camera for under 100 bucks.
    What would be interesting to hear, is why Weitze thought it was original.. if the buyer would ask the people that sold him the item, we could take it from there. That would also give us a good idea as to what people like the comp. of Weitze are using to reach their conclusions.

  10. #20
    I found the original images Weitze used to sell the badge in question here, not much better either BUT, the wear and tear is the major flag for me.
    The obverse shows heavy use, with the outer edging on the wreath worn down (right around the badge in an evenly distributed manner) and the base metal showing through, yet the reverse does not show anything close to normal wear and tear, and certainly not the wear and tear that would correspond with the heavy obverse usage.
    The reverse shows "chunks-plates" of gold that have flaked off, another flag for me, as this is just not how fire-gilding wears off. We can compare the HJ gold and NSDAP Ehrenzeichen to these, as they would have been finished in the same manner, fire-gilded.
    I would not have bought this badge, and am of the opinion that it is fake.

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