DJ Stamm flag - Stamm Rochlitz
- Thread starter Tascrn
- Start date
Hi there,
Interesting flag with some contradictions but here's a little timeline showing how long the DJ Stamm flag was in use:
July 1933 (effective from the first of Aug): introduction of the DJ Stamm as a structure (and therefore the requirement for a flag).
First of Sept 1934: orders are issued forewarning units about upcoming changes to flags and pennants and that they should therefore not order anything new until the changes had been published.
March 1935: the above orders were promulgated and the DJ Stamm flag lost its status as a unit flag.
So, the DJ Stamm flag can only have existed between July 1933 and March 1935 and as regulations regarding the design and size of this flag were available as early as August 1933 I would think that major deviations like those on your flag would have been unlikely..
Things that stick out:
Corner patch with geographical location: This is incorrect according to the regulations (August 1933) which specify that a DJ Stamm should carry the name of a germanic tribe associated with the region in which the Stamm is located. Examples would be "Vikinger" and "Allemannen". Also, period publications show that this name was stitched into the flag below the Siegrune and not onto a corner patch.
Rings instead of clips: Your flag appears to have rings from the post-1935 standardised flags instead of the clips that a DJ Stamm flag would normally have. The rings could have been added at some point after standardisation of course but would there have been any point in doing that when the flag itself was no longer in use?
Could the flag have survived due to its honour status? Honour flags were designated as such according to criteria laid out in the 1935 flag regulations. Such flags were permitted to remain in use under certain conditions (or to be put into a display in an Ehrenhalle) but due to the fact that the DJ Stamm did not exist until Aug 1933 this means that no Stamm flag would have qualified for either of those two possibilities which in turn would have lead to total redundancy. I think that DJ Stamm flags would perhaps have been recycled in some way to save money during the provision of Fähnlein flags. I haven't ever seen an original DJ Stamm flag of the regulation type in a collection which might go some way to supporting the idea that they were all turned into a different type of DJ flag once they became redundant.
Certainly on the face of it the flag is an odd one that goes against the regulations. What are the dimensions? Can you see any RZM markings on the rings? Have the rings been reattached to previously ripped loops?
Interesting flag with some contradictions but here's a little timeline showing how long the DJ Stamm flag was in use:
July 1933 (effective from the first of Aug): introduction of the DJ Stamm as a structure (and therefore the requirement for a flag).
First of Sept 1934: orders are issued forewarning units about upcoming changes to flags and pennants and that they should therefore not order anything new until the changes had been published.
March 1935: the above orders were promulgated and the DJ Stamm flag lost its status as a unit flag.
So, the DJ Stamm flag can only have existed between July 1933 and March 1935 and as regulations regarding the design and size of this flag were available as early as August 1933 I would think that major deviations like those on your flag would have been unlikely..
Things that stick out:
Corner patch with geographical location: This is incorrect according to the regulations (August 1933) which specify that a DJ Stamm should carry the name of a germanic tribe associated with the region in which the Stamm is located. Examples would be "Vikinger" and "Allemannen". Also, period publications show that this name was stitched into the flag below the Siegrune and not onto a corner patch.
Rings instead of clips: Your flag appears to have rings from the post-1935 standardised flags instead of the clips that a DJ Stamm flag would normally have. The rings could have been added at some point after standardisation of course but would there have been any point in doing that when the flag itself was no longer in use?
Could the flag have survived due to its honour status? Honour flags were designated as such according to criteria laid out in the 1935 flag regulations. Such flags were permitted to remain in use under certain conditions (or to be put into a display in an Ehrenhalle) but due to the fact that the DJ Stamm did not exist until Aug 1933 this means that no Stamm flag would have qualified for either of those two possibilities which in turn would have lead to total redundancy. I think that DJ Stamm flags would perhaps have been recycled in some way to save money during the provision of Fähnlein flags. I haven't ever seen an original DJ Stamm flag of the regulation type in a collection which might go some way to supporting the idea that they were all turned into a different type of DJ flag once they became redundant.
Certainly on the face of it the flag is an odd one that goes against the regulations. What are the dimensions? Can you see any RZM markings on the rings? Have the rings been reattached to previously ripped loops?
Interesting looking flag. The elongated rune and as Garry has pointed out canton panel are what stand out to me at first look.