Flemish made HJ-belt buckle

bertl59

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This buckle should be belgium-made but the quality is poor and it looks overpaint and is without RZM , i don t believe the story of the seller.
it exist some references from buckles made out of the RZM but always with a logo .your opinion about this one?
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I DO believe the story of the seller, since i know him.
Those buckles are 100% nice and found in Belgium.
Please read this thread:
Unmarked Painted Steel HJ Buckle: Opinions on Origins & Maker

The last post -with the winteruniformen- is mine (written today)
The original seller (militaria plaza) is a honest seller and is not the guy that makes up untrue stories..

The topicstarter of the link above (2011) has exactly the same buckle and also doubted when he first saw that one..
He sold them to another dealer (fjm44.com) and he posted the reference link of warrelics.. thats the reason why i reacted in that topic today. Since there is not much information yet about this very interesting buckles.. Could be a nice chance for a buckle collector.
 
Wilhelm,
Both of us can't give 100 procent argument. For you it is the story a dealer told you, for me it is the promise of a dealer i really trust and know.
The whole story and the trust in the dealer makes it okay to me.
Starting with the Winteruniformen and caps from the same hoard: They where all sold to me and NOT agains crazy prices but ''marked conform priced'' also the caps.
He did not have to make up the story that they where Flemisch HJ, because he did not asked to much money. The uniforms would have sold easy without the story!! Also the caps!
He always told me that if there was anything yet to be found, he would contact me.
Back then he just didnt know, because his friend who found the hoard said he was not finished searching there.
Now he came up with this..
I just have NO reason not to believe him.
Do you know the guy from militaria plaza? Perhaps it would change your thoughts.
But yes.. Looking on the artifact as they are without the story then: I have no doubts at the uniforms and caps! The buckles i would not know for sure.
The topic starter at Warrelics had doubts as well. Reading that topic changes minds.. And theN this hoard came up, from (in my eyes) a trustable source..
The buckles having exactly the same characteristics. That no coincidence in my opion.. I consider it as more prove..

Of course Wilhelm. No hard feelings. Just my thoughts.
 
so, you believe the story of your dealer. And so do I. Do not believe me, okay. You just stick to the fake!
Yes, and I know the guy Kreunen. So what?
The well-respected dealer not just showed me the HJ one, but also Flemish SS, Waffen-SS and others.
Many do believe they are original, but they are just fakes. Fake for many years.
 
Wilhelm,
If they would really be fake, then the story is made up!
Again. Why would he? The uniforms were good, the caps were good and those buckles came from the same hoard (yes... it could be made up)..
But again.. I really dont think he is the type of guy who would make money by making this story up.

But we will never know I think.
I dont say I dont believe you.. But claiming it is fake by saying your source is right Is not proof it is fake. And so is my story -thinking they are good because of the context of the hoard- as well offcource.

Maybe I have 3 fake buckles, yes..
I will never know for sure. The rest of the (as they told me) same hoard is textbook original.
 
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no, Jim (who I know very well) is not the person that makes up the story.
I think this was the seller from Brugge.
There are indications, the HJ buckles shown are no good. They would not pass inspection!
And if they indeed are made in Belgium, then for me, surely not during the TR-period.
But whatever, one can discuss this matter for ages.

I do not have a comment on the uniforms, Jim did show me!
 
Here the story of the Hoard found in Belgium ! (from WAF )
Hey guys,
I think I got some good information about the HJ buckle of the topicstarter!

Last year I got the great opportunity to buy 4 HJ winterbluse and 4 HJ wintercaps.
They were found together in 2020 and even the RZM tags have numbers close to each other.
They were found in the former HJ recruitment center in Brugge, Belgium.

The guy who found them, still had to search the building and the seller promised that I had the first choice to buy if anything was yet to be found.

And there it was.. In 2021 the guy found 26!! HJ buckles at the same location. And one LW.
I bought the nicest ones to complete my sets.

I'm petty sure this is great reference material, since the stuff was found together and was assumed to be left there since the war ended.

I convinced they have to be Belgium because of the found location and the other arguments the topicstarter allready wrote.
 
@Bertl.
That is my reaction on the warrelics forum..
(Link written in the post above)
So that is already discussed here.
The link was to let you know there are more of those. And for that you have to read the whole topic (staring with the first posts in 2011)
 
I had an in-depth contact with Jim from Militaria Plaza - who I know for many years -
and I explained my points of view why it is my opinion the buckles are either fake or
the worst manufactured buckles ever. This last would never be excepted when made
during the war. Whatever, they fell under control of the RZM, as they are party related
items (Genehmigungspflichtig).
Jim did send me good photos of the lot and single items, to give me a better view.
Several important things bother me extremely about them and are totally wrong! But
when you like them, then buy them. I don't care!

The future will learn what they really are!
 
Hello SMOLDERS ,
the buckles are good or not ... the uniforms are OK ,no problem with them but when i hear such kind of story for children about the found place sorry i must laugh ,this is not serious ! We need better evidence
I have nothing again the seller , i ve bought some items from him by the past and all of them were genuise.
bertl
 
Story for children.. hmm.. I can't make it better then it is.
I cannot prove it. And I will stop trying, because.. I don't have reference, only trust!
So, perhaps the future will learn us.

I also learned lessons in the past, so yeah.. beware..

I would also be carefull when I hear such a story, but in this case there were not many people between the finder and seller.

And again.. no "hard" proof..

I am NOT trying to convince anybody here!!
I just told the story for what it is.
 
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Smolders ,i don't want a hassle and hope that some real evidence can be found with the help of members of this or other forums. all information is interesting and as you write "perhaps the future will learn us"
In any case, there hasn't been that much reaction to a topic for a long time and it's always interesting to get new opinions, that's what makes a forum alive!
 
For study/reference:

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whatever they are, these buckles are the lousiest products I have seen in many years.
There are some visible remarks that one can believe the buckles are fake, reproductions or whatever.
During the TR-period they never would be sanctioned at all for many reasons. Where they were made
I have no idea, but anyway a manufacturer who does not have buckle-knowledge.

It does not make any sense to explain it, as people stick to their opinion and believe what they have
heard. I can live with that. I informed the seller about the remarks, but he sticks to the story. Okay,
for me. It gives me no reason anymore to take part in a discussion that leads us nowhere!
 
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