HJ shoulderstrap - Oberbann 2/Nachrichten ?

[mkholst]

I have had this shoulderstrap for a long time, but now I have doubts about what it really is.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

I have Wim’s Handbook in my library, and have studied it, but still I am not sure.

If there were a Roman no. (Unterbann) under the Bann-no., it is for sure that the color yellow is the color for Oberbann 2 , as it would be an early strap before the branch colors were used.

My strap is as you can see without Roman no. and cf. page 229 in Wim’s Handbook my strap is a “Nachrichten”strap (Signal). I know that Wim has a lot of knowledge, so at present I believe that it is a signal strap.

On dealers site these straps are called both Oberbann 2 and Signal, so that is no help.

When did the color yellow goes form Oberbann-color to Nachrichten-color ??

I hope to hear from some of the “Strap-specialists” on this Forum, so that I can be sure exactly what my strap is.

Michael

 

[Pimpf359]

Hi Michael,
Your shoulder flap is for ( Nachrichten ) HJ and the Unterbanne was abolished in late 1935 or early 1936.
Garry once wrote a contribution to that. Unfortunately I can not find him right now.

 

[wilhelm saris]

when the Oberbann-colors were abolished is exactly described in my book.

The footnumbers tell where the information was found!

 

[Trommeller]

Hi Michael,
Your shoulder flap is for ( Nachrichten ) HJ and the Unterbanne was abolished in late 1935 or early 1936.
Garry once wrote a contribution to that. Unfortunately I can not find him right now.

Garry's information on Oberbann, change of colours and roman numerals including footnotes can be found by clicking on the linked word "Oberbann" in mkholst post 1 above at the top of this page or here in mine or yours I agree with you that this strap with no Unterbann number and yellow cord is Nachrichten-HJ

 

[mkholst]

Hi Wim

I have just looked in your book again - and after you told me that the information IS in your book, I found it (page 220-23). Now I wonder why I did not find it before

As I read, the fact is that before april 1936 was the straps with yellow color and Unterbann no. = Obergebiet 2 - and after april 1936 the strap with yellow color without Unterbann no. = Signal.

Conclusion: straps without Unterbann no. is always branch-colored, so my strap i definitely SIGNAL.

Wim, thanks for writing that book, it has again proved to be THE BOOK

Michael

 

[wilhelm saris]

You also could have found information about Oberbann-colors on page 522.

 

[debertex]

Hello,

If I remember well, until 1936 shoulderstraps with only Bann arabical number (regiment number) and without Unterbann roman number (bataillon number) are whose of the Bann Stab.

Best regards

 

[Garry]

Hello,

If I remember well, until 1936 shoulderstraps with only Bann arabical number (regiment number) and without Unterbann roman number (bataillon number) are whose of the Bann Stab.

Best regards

Yes, Bann and Oberbann Stab. This is noted in RJF Verordnungsblatt 27 dated 15.9.1933. The strap in post 1 could therefore conceivably be one of those or a later Nachrichten-HJ strap as others have said. I'll add this info to the Oberbann page.

 

[mkholst]

Hi guys - thanks for all your comments.

I think we have now uncovered what the shoulder strap may be, and it turned out that it was not as straight as you would think. There are now two options, Bann Stab or Nachrichten.

So I still have to live with the fact, that I do not know 100% what it is for a shoulder strap, but I would like to do this after this serious debate.

I really appreciate how much knowledge there is among the members of this forum.

Michael

 

[Pimpf359]

Here's a couple of mine where the Roman numbers were removed and the boards were carried as Nachrichten HJ.

You don't have permission to view attachments.

 

[crack]

Hi guys - thanks for all your comments.

I think we have now uncovered what the shoulder strap may be, and it turned out that it was not as straight as you would think. There are now two options...

Yes but three options not two. As was stated previously, Oberbann Stab, Bann Stab and possibly a later strap around 1936 for Na-HJ.

 

[debertex]

Hello,

The Bann officials assigned to the Oberbann Stab (as connecting elements) wore there Bann Stab shoulderstraps.

The Oberbann officials wore the Oberbann Stab shoulderstraps (see picture from Wim's book).

Best regards

You don't have permission to view attachments.

 

[Garry]

Hello,

The Bann officials assigned to the Oberbann Stab (as connecting elements) wore there Bann Stab shoulderstraps.

The Oberbann officials wore the Oberbann Stab shoulderstraps (see picture from Wim's book).

Best regards

As Wim says, that type of strap went out of use very quickly but we are not discussing that type but rather the type shown in post 1. What you show was introduced AFTER the order that I mentioned earlier. RJF Verordnungsblatt 27 dated 15.9.1933 states that those on the Oberbann- and Bannstab wore normal straps without the Unterbann number. The type you show was introduced in April 1934 (RJF Verordnungsblatt 118 dated 7th of April) and was in use for a short time only. From our Oberbann wiki page:

An announcement was made by Reichsjugendführer Schirach at a leader conference in Traben-Trarbach (17th-18th April 1934) that the HJ Oberbann and BdM Gau were to be dissolved. Orders were subsequently issued on the 2nd of May and the 27th of October 1934 respectively. The Oberbanne were to be fully dissolved by the 1st of July 1934 and the Gaue by the 1st of Jan 1935. The ranks of HJ Oberbannführer and BdM-Gauführerin remained in use. The work previously carried out at the Oberbann and Gau was delegated up to the Gebiet and Obergau level.

I hope that's clear now.

 

[debertex]

Hello,

As I wrote, the two types were worn at the same time within this staff :

_The Bann officials assigned to the Oberbann Stab (as connecting elements) wore there Bann Stab shoulderstraps.

_The Oberbann officials wore the Oberbann Stab shoulderstraps.

It is obvious that the leader of the Oberbann and his staff did not wear the insignia of a subordinate unit (shoulderstraps with a Bann number) !

So, if you write that the Oberbann- and Bannstab wore "normal straps without the Unterbann number", this information is incomplete. I repeat : only the Bann officials assigned to the Oberbann Stab (as connecting elements) wore shoulderstraps with there Bann Stab number.

Best regards

 

[Garry]

...

It is obvious that the leader of the Oberbann and his staff did not wear the insignia of a subordinate unit (shoulderstraps with a Bann number) !

Yes, very obvious. Which is why I didn't mention it. Look at the strap in post 1. That is what we are discussing. It is clearly not an Oberbannführer strap and nor is it a "OB" strap so you are simply talking about something that, although an interesting side-issue, is irrelevant. We are discussing the Oberbann 2, Bann 82 Scharführer strap in post 1 and whether it could be a pre-1934 Stab member strap. I gave you the references for what I'm saying and am not making this up. The 1933 order clearly states that those up to the rank of Scharführer working on the Bannstab or up to Unterbannführer on the Oberbannstab wore straps with just Bann numbers.

An excerpt from the 1933 order that I referenced here and in post 13:

You don't have permission to view attachments.

Also, I have corrected it again but would you mind not writing in huge letters? It clutters up the page. Thanks.

 

[debertex]

Hello Garry,

Remember : It begans when I told that this kind of shoulderstrap was not only for the later HJ-Nachrichten-Einheiten but, at first, for the Bann Stab.

You wrote (refering to a Befehl) that the Oberbann- and Bannstab wore "normal straps without the Unterbann number", and I answered that this information is incomplete. The Befehl that you use for your demonstration is, perhaps, only a complement of another Befehl which describes the insignia worn by an Oberbann-Führer (?)

I'm (I was) the guy who writes with big letters... and it seems that you are the guy who is a little upset that I've taught you (or just remembered) what we're talking about : the shoulderstraps of the Bann Stabe 1933- 1936.

Keep cool, my friend !... and, once again : Sorryfor taking up too much space on this forum.

Best regards

 

[Garry]

Not upset as this is a simple matter of what the regulations say. They are very clear as you can see from the excerpt in my previous post. Oberbannstab members up to Unterbannführer did indeed wear Bann numbers on their straps. The regulation calls them Stammbann numbers.

PS Where are your references by the way? You (incorrectly) questioned mine when I produced them but never seem to have any of your own.