Non portable award help

[Mike 41]

I have been looking around trying to find one of these to buy & here are some examples that popped up. The one with the raised lettering on the reverse has the best detail & I have only ever seen 1 like that.
All others I have seen over the years have had the lettering impressed into the reverse & the one with no lettering on the reverse is the only 1 I have come across like that.
I would appreciate some other input on these table awards, I know that there are some who believe these are fantasy pieces & others do not.



Mike

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[WIDUKIND]

Hello Mike,

I think these rewards were real at the time, some ill-intentioned people have made serial fakes in the last 40 years.
Conclusion : buy it if you are 100% sure of yourself.

Best Regards
Eric

 

[Mike 41]

Hello Mike,

I think these rewards were real at the time, some ill-intentioned people have made serial fakes in the last 40 years.
Conclusion : buy it if you are 100% sure of yourself.

Best Regards
Eric

Eric, I appreciate your reply, my question is which are the real ones .... the raised lettering or the impressed lettering? As I said in my previous post the ones with the impressed lettering are the ones mostly encountered & I have only come across one with raised letters.
I think it would make more sense for the maker to impress the letters rather than having a die for each event ...shooting, swimming, shooting etc ?

Mike

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[Garry]

I have two of these with both being the engraved version. They are both boxed but I've never been really happy with them since finding out that they were reproduced by a company post-war. Now, I don't have any doubt that they existed during the TR but as you say Mike, which are the correct ones? Also, how do we differentiate between pre and post-war?

I got mine out this morning to take a couple of photos. They aren't great but there are some details which I hope you can see. One thing is clear, mine were definitely cast and not stamped. I have no idea whether this would have been normal during the period for an item like this but anyway, mine were definitely cast and then hand-finished.

So, some pics follow.

Pitting and what looks like sand residue (also inside the letters):

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Some kind of "sandwich" thing going on here marked by the green line. This is evident on both badges.

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??:

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[Jo Rivett]

1st place in Icehockey? There could have been no 1st place, coz: Das für den 13. Februar 1943 angesetzte Halbfinale zwischen Berlin und Mannheim sowie das für den 20. Februar 1943 vorgesehene Endspiel konnten kriegsbedingt nicht mehr ausgetragen werden. And the only match in Prage was in Gruppe B. Why would each Gruppe have been given a medal, that just does not make sense.And if so, they why no Gruppen name? To me the inscription on yours makes no sense at all??? There would need to be seven different medals, for the 4 winners in Gruppe B and three in A, and each town name would be different.. and even though they "won" they didn`t really, coz the semi finals and finals were called off due to the war....
Source

 

[Jo Rivett]

Just had a good look at your images Garry, and it`s terrible. faker even tried to hide the fact that it`s cast by sanding down certain areas. That together with the actual event in 1943, and it becomes very clear that it`s a bogus item IMHO.

 

[Garry]

Hi Jo,

Yep, mine look bad and the one I showed is the better of the two! Pretty funny that they didn't even bother getting the residue from the sander off them

This medal is another of those items for which there is very, very limited evidence that it belongs in the period. I always bring it up but the only time I've ever seen them in a setting that could be from the period is the set of sporting medals belonging to Frank Zigon who swam competitively in the TR. Souval is mentioned in it as the post-war producer but we also attempted to get better pictures of the Zigon group but to no avail. That alleged set is the extent of the evidence as far as I'm aware and of course it isn't enough so I remain generally unconvinced of these medals.

I had never bothered to look at my badges close-up until you got into micro examinations but I had a good look at these two medals yesterday through my Xhardlyanything magnifying glass and was pretty shocked

 

[WIDUKIND]

Hi Garry,

I'm sorry for you Garry. This is exactly what I thought and I had already reported it to Mike a few days ago.
Too many Fakes and total uncertainty.
That's why I always boycotted this reward because there were too many risks.

 

[Garry]

No probs As I say, although I didn't know 100% that they were fakes back in 2006/7 when I bought them, I never really trusted them so it isn't a huge shock to see the awful edges etc. It was only the Zigon set that stopped me from discounting the medals in general and I wish we could have got some good photos of the Zigon stuff. However, with auction houses who knows whether what they sold wasn't infected with a couple of fakes. My badges aren't even worth sending to Jo so I'll have to find some fitting end for them As Mike says, it would be good to get to the bottom of this and find out whether these medals (not mine) can be identified as either the correct type, as a fake or whether they are all fantasy.