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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    ....that a book being published now should represent the absolute cutting-edge of current research.
    That`s a good way of phrasing it. sometimes i use 10 posts to get to a simple sentence like this.
    We are so far ahead with specific research and figures today, have so many Forums, many Archives at our fingertips and access to information that Authors of the 70`s and 80`s would have cut their feet off for... This is reflected in the class of Reference books that are available now, detailed, and on specific subjects, researched to the fullest. There are even people on every Forum who are willing to Translate free of charge for you if you ask, so "not speaking German" is no longer a problem.

    I am not saying that a "General Guide to all NS awards book" is not welcome, or needed, but it should at least be factually correct, and filled with much more than the Books of past decades, where random pictures are shown captioned with the Authors opinion.

    To be honest, any sane, half-advanced collector today, would look at the Silver [golden] Party badge, RZM marked authenticated in your book, and say.. "If the Author thinks that this item is a period piece, then his Knowledge is not only rock bottom, but any other "Grand" claim in his book pertaining to Higher class awards should be taken with a pinch of salt, or ignored altogether"
    Thats the truth, any Golden Party badge collector would laugh at you, even the younger generation.

  2. #92

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    OK lets try and address some of the points. Silver party badge, this was in the order given in the introduction of the German Order. Thus the system was, Golden Party badge, this was for the membership under 100000, then the silver Party badge, followed by the Rune Stern. The German Orer in its grades, The highest class, posthumous award, then the 1st class, awarded with Oakleaves and Swords and in the plain form. The Deumer cased set shows the Grades and is shown on page 44 no 75. The mark on the reverse of the badge shown is that of that Firm. The comment chit chat, in connection of Mr Cosens is rather demeaning. He was the managing director of the firm and gave me the information. Together with this is correspondence with Dr Horsted over the German Order. Photos were made by him of the pieces in the Lüdenshcheid museum, these had been presented by Mr Cosens. It was he who stated to me that the first pieces were produced in tomback, and latterly they were produced in silver. Returning to the badge in hand. The question is raised why are there two types. Research shows clesrly that there was. Thus you have that on the funeral pillow of Dr Todt. Period evidence that the badge was issued in this form. As to construction, Gold, I have seen this from the collection of Stan. Comparing the Gold and the silver guilt they are the same. Again an important observation is that the silver guilt badge is hand chased on the Oakleaves. I think from memory Stan's piece is the same construction. The zinc form is in comparison a not so precise piece. So why the variations in metal. These are not grades but methods of construction. The manufacture could produce in what her liked. The cost in gold and that in silver guilt would at the time not be expedencially great. As there is no makers mark it is extremely hard to ascertain who was responsible for the production. This leaves us with a number of summations. The gold badge was that which was awarded and the silver guilt was one you could buy as a second piece. The next is that a cost cutting exercise gave rise to the use of silver. We are looking at originality of the pieces. Without double both are original. The zinc piece is but a wear piece. Nothing more nothing less. It could have been a shop window, display piece. BUT IT IS NOT AN AWARD PIECE.

    To the first piece shown, this is the only one I have seen. It is original and the planchet is hand chased. This is the piece shown on the award document, plus that in Dohle. These are not my imagination or hurried conclusions. The period proof is there to illustrate the existence of this type of award. Again being unmarked, attributing a manufacturer to it is extremely hard.

    As a final comment, the quality of production of both pieces is extremely high. Also the method of manufacture is different. Type one has small rivets. These are of a high standard. The second has no rivets. Again one has to have them in hand to appreciate the quality.
    Last edited by stuart; 26th September 2011 at 10:22 PM.

  3. #93
    Thanks for your effort, but we would prefer some documented Facts, not your opinion. There was never a silver party badge, and the Rune star you show.. well, you got into a debate over this in 2003 on WAF, and could not provide any facts then either.
    Out of interest, what was the silver party badge, in your opinion, supposed to be presented for ?

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    the first pieces were produced in tomback, and latterly they were produced in silver.
    Going against History here, the first Dead man was awarded his Order, in cheap Tombac as you say, in 1942. Then, much later on, in 1945 when the last 4 were awarded, they changed the cheap Tombac to Silver ? Do you realize how off the wall you sound, when you try and convince us that the Highest NSDAP award, awarded only 10 times, was made in various metals?
    PROOF, not a call, chat, letter from someone who remembered something, or told you what you wanted to hear, PROOF, FACTS !
    Quote Originally Posted by WARLORD View Post
    These are not grades but methods of construction. The manufacture could produce in what he liked.
    Yes, that's why my Play-dough Golden Party badges are Real.

    Discussing with you in pointless, you have published no back up, you have no back up, just what you think.

    I will join the rest who, on the sole basis of your Fake and Fantasy Golden, and Silver party badges that you have Authenticated in your book, prove beyond a shadow of any reasonable doubt, that all you have published is your opinion, with no regard for actual history, and in my personal opinion, you have made no progress since you published your first book decades ago, in fact, you have regressed. Yourself, and other Authors like you, need to understand that the collectors are not as gullible as they were when you first started out. You have no right to debate on, and indeed authenticate and publish Awards of such rarity and statue using nothing but your opinion and what you think looks well made, or original. A crying Shame !

    If you can start, to bring some documented facts into this discussion, i would be more than prepared to debate with you, until then, it`s all Hot Air and BS.

  5. #95
    Using the "Fair use" copyright get-out-of-being-sued-clause, for the benefit of those who don't have your book, i am uploading scans of the Fake Golden Party badge, that, same as the different border-HJ oak leaves you are trying to say are real, you have authenticated as Real, Very rare, made by Christian Lauer and dedicated. (page 31)
    Do we need more proof than this, that your claims are no more than what you think ? I do not know of a single, avid GPB collector who would agree with you that this badge is genuine.

    Mr Ailsby........ i Debunk this GPB all on my own, without a Grand knowledge of the GPB, by a simple, Period Document.

    You should try reading the Military Advisor, if you did, you would have noted the original document signed by MB, stating that NO Golden Party badges would be awarded on this date. 20.IV.1944. The very date your "Dedicated, and Authentic, scare badge shows."
    (Scan included, MA Vov 22 M°2. page 30 Photo-credit:Joe Wotka)

    Do you see the Weight, that Period Evidence carries, as opposed to mindless rabble and "i think, i know, i heard..."
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #96

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    Just for your information: today I saw about a dozen of the
    Golden HJ Honour Badge with Oak leaves

    at the militaria-fair in Reichertshofen at different dealers.

    After having read this thread the prices for these fakes seem ridiculous.

    It is good to have this forum, thank you all.

  7. #97
    to bad you got
    no pics would have been very interesting

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL AYERST View Post
    to bad you got
    no pics would have been very interesting

    Sorry Paul, I saw the Weitze one and several others.
    But people were not allowed to take any pictures within the hall of the fair.

  9. #99
    bummer, I wonder what they have to hide ?

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by christianlohmann View Post
    But people were not allowed to take any pictures within the hall of the fair.
    Wow, thats a new one, maybe a sign of the Changing times ? i never had a problem before taking pictures, although not everyone wants you too, you can feel that.... On weitzes Facebook page you can see pictures that he himself (or his wife) have taken at shows? Some of the smaller shows are tricky for sure, and always best to have a few friends with you as sometimes the fake sellers can get quite agressive... but i dont see the problem? why would a dealer not be proud of his stock and want others to see? would also be great advertisment for the Show, showing those who did not attend What they missed....

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